Given that I have always preferred the classic Larrivee look, going back to when all of his guitars had clear pick guards, I decided to change the tortoise shell on my L09 KOA for a clear pick guard. I should point out that the top on this guitar is possibly the most gorgeous piece of spruce I have personally held in my hands, and felt that it should be shown off, not hidden.
After taking off the factory installed piece, it was clear that although I purchased this guitar only 5 months ago, it had developed a slight suntan under the old pick guard. This guitar has always been stored in it's case in a non-smoking home, and as for sunlight - what sunlight? I just survived a Canadian winter!
Having decided that the tan lines were not too severe, I went ahead and replaced it with the clear pick guard, and I am happy that I did. It looks great! :thumbsup Also, I'm sure that this slight tan will age along with the rest of the top and disappear over time.
My question is, has anyone had any experience with this? I really want to do the same thing to my L05 MQ Custom, but when I started to peel back the tortoise shell, it was obvious that the tan lines were more apparant. I just put it back down and I'm a little hesitant to go forward. The L05 was purchased only last September, so it's not as though we are talking about an old guitar. While I'm happy with the way the KOA turned out (and would do it again in a heartbeat), I know that the stronger tan lines on the hog will be more visible initially and may take years to blend in as the guitar ages.
Your comments and experience with this???
jimmy
no personal experience, but I've heard of people covering up the rest of the guitar and leaving out so it can gets lots of sun.
My 00-50 had a tortoise pickguard, and i had it taken iff, my luthier calledme and described the very slight tan line, and i went to see it...it was VERY slight, so I also had clear pickguard put on, and it looks great.
He told me that being in the case all the time (as this one had been) didn't make much difference, it was aging rather than sunlight. Made sense to me...after all, wood decks on homes don't become darker, maybe dirtier, but not darker.
glad you are happy with the results, I also like to see the beautiful spruce as much as possible! :coffee
Isn't it the finish that turns amber with age (UV light) rather than the spruce itself? Or is it both?
My '68 Yammie is a wonderful pumpkin colour now.
Quote from: Cowgirlie on April 25, 2007, 01:01:57 PM
Made sense to me...after all, wood decks on homes don't become darker, maybe dirtier, but not darker.
I think that happens after the sealant/lacquer has worn off.
Besides if it was just age, doesn't the finish underneath the pickguard also age? Maybe pickguards are the Fountain of Youth :arrow
I have a desk that when I was a kid had pictures and what not under a plexiglass cover, you can see the outlines where the stuff was.
... and I think it is mainly the finish that darkens, though the wood has to darken some I think. Because different species seem to age differently.
Quote from: Cowgirlie on April 25, 2007, 01:01:57 PM
My 00-50 had a tortoise pickguard, and i had it taken iff, my luthier calledme and described the very slight tan line, and i went to see it...it was VERY slight, so I also had clear pickguard put on, and it looks great.
Hey juni,
Thanks for the coffee! Glad to see that I'm not the only one who appreciates the great wood under those pick guards.
I was wondering if you could tell me how old your guitar was when you did this, and more importantly, did the variation in colour fade over time (i.e. how long has it been since you put the clear pick guard on, and has it blended in a little, a lot, not at all??)?
As I stated, the top on this KOA is gorgeous and I always figured that JCL picked some special sound boards for these KOAs, but I'm pretty sure that the hog has a bigger tan line and I need to do it now or never, before it gets even more noticable. My son says just go for it, so being the reckless sort that I am, that's probably what I'll do.
I can always order a new tortoise shell guard if it turns out that I can't live with it...
jimmy
My D-09 12 had a really obvious sun-tan line from the factory. It looked like it was in the shadow of another guitar while it was being UV'd. I bought it as a blem (back when they were available) Matthew told me it would fade in time as the top darkened. He told me that spruce does get a sun tan over time. He was right it has blended in nicely and now the shadow is hardly noticeable. It may stay visible to you since you know about it and other observers won't see the tan lines, as they will be overwhelmed by the beauty of the top.
Quote from: jimmy buffett on April 25, 2007, 12:21:14 PM
After taking off the factory installed piece, it was clear that although I purchased this guitar only 5 months ago, it had developed a slight suntan under the old pick guard. This guitar has always been stored in it's case in a non-smoking home, and as for sunlight - what sunlight? I just survived a Canadian winter!
My question is, has anyone had any experience with this? I really want to do the same thing to my L05 MQ Custom, but when I started to peel back the tortoise shell, it was obvious that the tan lines were more apparent. I just put it back down and I'm a little hesitant to go forward. The L05 was purchased only last September, so it's not as though we are talking about an old guitar. While I'm happy with the way the KOA turned out (and would do it again in a heartbeat), I know that the stronger tan lines on the hog will be more visible initially and may take years to blend in as the guitar ages.
jimmy
Jimmy,
Just for clarification ... you believe that the spruce tops of your Larrivée guitars are becoming discoloured, at least in comparison to the rest of the soundboard, due to being covered by the Tortis pickguard? And this is happening in a short period of time ... as little as a few months?
Have you contacted Larrivée Guitars about this matter? I really would like to know what is causing this. Is it the adhesive used to glue down the pickguard? They were gluing down the clear pickguards before and this didn't seem to be happening. Is it a chemical or chemicals within the Tortis pickguard that is reacting with the varnish and/or the spruce?
Your L-09 Koa and your L-05 are both gloss finishes. Cowgirlie's (Juni's) 00-50 and PortHueneme's D-09 are also gloss tops. Do you know if this is happening to the satin finishes, like on my L-03?
I differ from you, since I prefer the Tortis pickguard over the clear ones that Larrivée used previously, but I'm not crazy about what might be happening to my beautiful spruce under the pickguard.
I am very glad that you brought this to our attention. Other discussion threads have talked about replacing or removing the clear/Tortis pickguards, but no one has brought up this discolouration issue. :?
So, I'll just go ahead and ask......
How do you go about getting the pickguard off? :?
~droo
I removed my pickguard very easily using a hair dryer set on low and held a few inches from the guard....this softens up the glue then if you can get your finger nail under a corner and start to pry it up..SLOWLY...then more heat and gentle preasure wiill get it off safely...Once again GO SLOW...if you start yanking on it you can pull up some of the spruve top as well....so take your time. Any reamining glue residue can be removed with a rag and naptha...or lighterfluid....not the kind for your grill...but the kind for your zippo lighter...NO SMOKING....unless you want a Jimi Hendrix Guitar... :roll
:cheers
Blue
Quote from: Blue in VT on April 26, 2007, 09:49:53 AM
I removed my pickguard very easily using a hair dryer set on low and held a few inches from the guard....this softens up the glue then if you can get your finger nail under a corner and start to pry it up..SLOWLY...then more heat and gentle preasure wiill get it off safely...Once again GO SLOW...if you start yanking on it you can pull up some of the spruve top as well....so take your time.
My experience was prettty much like Blue's. I just held a heat gun over the old pick guard for about 30 to 45 seconds, and then gently peeld it back. It peeled back in no time, but there was a great deal of glue that had to be cleaned off. The tech who was helping me (or was I helping him?) was surprised at just how much glue was under there, but it was such a gummey consistancy that I think there was little liklihood of causing damage. None the less, as Blue states, go slowly and it comes off like a charm.
jimmy
Quote from: canoe65 on April 25, 2007, 08:24:24 PM
Just for clarification ... you believe that the spruce tops of your Larrivée guitars are becoming discoloured, at least in comparison to the rest of the soundboard, due to being covered by the Tortis pickguard? And this is happening in a short period of time ... as little as a few months?
Have you contacted Larrivée Guitars about this matter? I really would like to know what is causing this.
Do you know if this is happening to the satin finishes, like on my L-03?
Other discussion threads have talked about replacing or removing the clear/Tortis pickguards, but no one has brought up this discolouration issue. :?
Don't worry, you can relax canoe,
This aging process where the top colour darkens over time is totally normal and will happen with every guitar, regardless of the manufacturer. This is not a warranty issue and is to be expected.
The only item that confuses me is why the colour under the tortoise shell does not age while the colour under the clear pick guard matures at the same pace of the rest of the top. An earlier poster had stated that the aging is
not the result of exposure to sunlight, but if this is the case, why do the tops under a tortoise shell not change along with everything else.
Anyway, the top on the KOA looks awesome, but I'm still trying to decide about doing the same thing to my L05. I peeled it back even further this morning to sneal a peak, and yup, it has a real good tan, and the guitar only went into production last June!
PortHueneme, you said that the tan line on that "blem" did eventually blend in with the rest of the top, so I'll ask the same question that I put to cowgirlie. How bad was the tan, and how long did it take before it was not so noticible?
jimmy
The tan on my D-09 was pretty noticeable when I got the guitar. (again it was a blem from the factory). After about six months the tan was much less noticeable. I had to point it out to folks and be in just the right light. Today it is hardly visible, I can still see it, but probably because I know it is there. Most everyone else looks at me weird when I point it out to them.
I have left the guitar in the stand more than other guitars in hopes it would tan faster.
Quote from: PortHueneme on April 26, 2007, 10:57:56 AM
The tan on my D-09 was pretty noticeable when I got the guitar. (again it was a blem from the factory). After about six months the tan was much less noticeable. I had to point it out to folks and be in just the right light. Today it is hardly visible, I can still see it, but probably because I know it is there. Most everyone else looks at me weird when I point it out to them.
I have left the guitar in the stand more than other guitars in hopes it would tan faster.
If the tan was less noticable after 6 months, how long has been off so that people are indicating that they can't see it?
I can feel that pick guard coming off as we speak...
jimmy
Quote from: jimmy buffett on April 26, 2007, 10:40:44 AM
The only item that confuses me is why the colour under the tortoise shell does not age while the colour under the clear pick guard matures at the same pace of the rest of the top. An earlier poster had stated that the aging is not the result of exposure to sunlight, but if this is the case, why do the tops under a tortoise shell not change along with everything else.
I think any light will tan the finish. I've heard of guitar builders leaving their lacquer out in clear containers so it will be pre-darkened when they put it on.
Quote from: jeremy3220 on April 26, 2007, 11:28:14 AM
I think any light will tan the finish. I've heard of guitar builders leaving their lacquer out in clear containers so it will be pre-darkened when they put it on.
This is what I'm thinking as well. Any light will tan the finish, so leaving your guitar in it's case would typically slow the process, and would also explain why clear pick guards change colour evenly.
Never heard of aging the lacquer before it's applied, though. That's an interesting detail for the luthier who thinks of everything.
jimmy
I think you all are right, it's the lacquer that "tans".
My guitar was maybe a year old, but had been kept "cased" as I said. Yep. Lacquer tan makes sense.
Can I ask where to pick up a clear pick guard? I'm not a huge fan of the tortoise shell.
Also, wouldn't lighter fluid removing the gummy residue harm the gloss lacquer finish? Could you, or should you, use Goo Off or a citrus cleaner instead?
Admittedly, I've never done this and know nothing about it at all.
Quote from: Dale_I on April 28, 2007, 01:33:09 AM
Also, wouldn't lighter fluid removing the gummy residue harm the gloss lacquer finish? Could you, or should you, use Goo Off or a citrus cleaner instead?
Nope and nope, Naptha is the thing to use.
I think it was Frank Ford at Gryphon that described his process of aging laquer on the roof. However, I think both the finish and the wood are changing as they age. The planks on my barn are the same pumpkin orange on the inside when broken by a storm (they are typical barnwood gray on the outside). Cherry is another wood that definitely tans.
Quote from: Dale_I on April 28, 2007, 01:33:09 AM
Can I ask where to pick up a clear pick guard? I'm not a huge fan of the tortoise shell.
I am currently building a custom guitar with Tony Karol in Mississauaga, Ontario, so when we removed the old pick guard, Tony just cut a new one from a large sheet of self adhesive (vinyl?) material that he uses on his guitars. He just uses scissors to cut them from the sheet and puts them in place, and smooths out the surface to work out any bubbles that may be present. Round-out the corners with the scissors to make it a little more elegant and you're ready to attach the new guard. Before removing the peal-off backing, place the new guard in position, put some masking tape along the bottom edge to hold it in place, then peel-off the backing as you lay it down. Nothing to it!!!
I don't know where you can purchase this material locally, but luthier supply houses like Stewart-MacDonald and such would likely have them. Here's a link to their pick guard page, which does feature a clear guard, or maybe a local guitar tech or custom shop could help. http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Hardware,_parts/Acoustic_guitar:_Pickguards/1/Acoustic_Pickguards/Pictures.html#details
Any suggestions here, unclrob??? I see that the Larrivee Wearables site offers the tortoise shell guards, but no clear ones. Perhaps Larrivee in Vancouver would send one out, since they still use the clear guards on their 03 models. I'd suggest e-mailing Brian Trepanier in B.C..
When we cut the pattern for the L09, we modelled it after the clear pick guards that Larrivee uses on their 03s, which is more rectangular than the tear-drop pattern of the tortoise shells. If your cutting your own, the L05 and L09s have a 4" radius along the curve that follows the rosette. Just trace it out with the appropriate sized soup can or something.
For those who may not wish to attempt this on their own, I'm sure that a local tech would do this for a reasonable fee. It only takes about 15 minutes.
Anyway, my Karol Signature model is constructed from quilted bubinga (back and side panels) and a master grade lutz (spruce) top. I have the back panel attached to the sides and will be gluing the top on Monday. The 3 piece mahogany neck is now glued in rough form, and I will be shaping the neck once the binding has been attached.
This guitar was started in mid January, and it's finally starting to take shape. As I like to say, "turning trees into guitars". For anyone who is interested in building your own instrument, I highly recommend it. It's an interesting process and you tend to meet some pretty interesting people. Some folks are back for their 2nd or 3rd guitar, and they will tell you that the one they built is their favourite. Tony knows how to build 'em and they not only sound great, but are true works of art. He knows his stuff and at the end of the process, you know a lot more about guitars and what makes them tick. And every detail from the wood selection, body style, decorative features and such, are all specified by you!
I'll post pictures when I get off my duff, but in the meantime, take a look at his web site:
http://www.karol-guitars.com/home.html
Cheers... :thumbsup :guitar :thumbsup
jimmy
Jimmy --
Thanks a bunch :thumbsup. Just what I was looking for. I shot an email over to Brian, as you suggested, and will wait to hear back from him. However, the supply site you linked to also had an excellent option.
Looking through the building site you linked to is also very interesting. No way I have the time right now. But, knowing that with some guidance, patience, and a knowledgable mentor, you could build a guitar makes me think that retirement may not be all that bad. If I ever get to retire... :blush:
Quote from: Dale_I on April 28, 2007, 08:53:37 PM
Jimmy --
Thanks a bunch :thumbsup. Just what I was looking for. I shot an email over to Brian, as you suggested, and will wait to hear back from him. However, the supply site you linked to also had an excellent option.
Looking through the building site you linked to is also very interesting. No way I have the time right now. But, knowing that with some guidance, patience, and a knowledgable mentor, you could build a guitar makes me think that retirement may not be all that bad. If I ever get to retire... :blush:
Yes, Dale, definitely something to look forward to. One night a week, and always learning something, not to mention creating an instrument that will be very personal.
As for the StewMac clear pick guard, since they only have one model indicated on their web page, it would be good to know if the radius on that model matches the radius on your Larry. I think you will find that typically, they have a 4" radius at the soundhole, and at that price there's nothing to lose...
jimmy