Well....I can avoid it no longer.... :rolleyes:....I'm fighting my way through Lbba Cotten's Wilson Rag (great Tune by the way) and I have encountered a barre chord I can't avoid.....I managed to work around them to this poit....but.....I need to learn some time.  So can anyone suggest a good online lesson or tutorial for learning barres?

thanks all,

Blue in VT

 :ph34r:

They are easy with a few weeks practice.  Get a chord book with barre chord diagrams.   There are for basic shapes.  All it is is an A shape with the index holding all strings on the fret before it.  Also, an E shape, an A minor shape and an E minor shape.  Learn these first.

I can't think of an online lesson, but my adviice would be to do them the way I was taught a long time ago...place your thumb behind the neck and use lots of thumb pressure to assist your barre finger. Keep your finger fairly close to the fret and straight and try to make it sound as clean as possible. Once you have that down, and become comfortable with them, they are not that bad and you can then modify your approach to allow you to fret the bass string if needed to with your thumb. But the important point is to not use only finger pressure as you will very quickly be bound to get tired. Also, only fret the barre for the size needed. You may only have to barre some of the strings rather than all six.

Andy

A couple of things that might help. First,  remember you only need the index finger to hold down  the strings not being fretted by your other fingers. Second, it's sometimes easier to move up to the fourth or fifth fret where the frets are closer together to get the muscle memory working while learning a barre shape. That is assumoing that you have a low action with a good setup. The last little tidbit is that some players, Doc Watson for example, have never learned barre chords and have done OK.  I'd suggest that you choose a barre shape you want to learn, practice it for five minutes at the beginning, the middle, and again at the end of your practice session.

In addition to the techniques above, a lot of it is strength development.  Practice!


E. Shoaf

Quote from: Blue in VT on July 27, 2006, 08:13:29 AM
Well....I can avoid it no longer.... :rolleyes:....I'm fighting my way through Lbba Cotten's Wilson Rag (great Tune by the way) and I have encountered a barre chord I can't avoid.....I managed to work around them to this poit....but.....I need to learn some time.  So can anyone suggest a good online lesson or tutorial for learning barres?

thanks all,

Blue in VT

I feel your pain!  I was leaning Wilson Rag also and had never done a Barre chord until i started it.  Big mistake I made was practicing too much.  I was using my thumb to press up as i pushed down withe my index, which of course works, but what happened was I strained the muscles at the base of my thumb.  I had to stop practicing it for several weeks and now I've moved onto something else. So the lesson is...don't overdue it!

I've taken my "Elle" in to get the action lowered also with the hopes that it might make it a bit easier.

Good luck!

I must confess I don't agree about using lots of pressure.  A couple of excellent guitar teachers, including one who's a guitar prof at the local university and a devastating steel string player too, have told me that's not good.  Pressing too hard kills relaxation and flexibility.  Actually, you should be able to barre the chord without pressing down with the thumb.

I'd suggest making sure you're holding the guitar so your left wrist is straight and relaxed.  The, when learning a barre, place fingers 2, 3, and 4 before barreing with the index.  Not only is it less effort ... the index doesn't have to fret all 6 strings when the chord doesn't require it ... but it'll automatically place your fingers in the right positions.

ALso, where you place the thumb in the middle of the beck of the neck makes a big difference.  If you're in 1st position, it should be almost behind the 2nd finger.  At the 8th or 9th fret or so it can be behind the index or even slightly pointing towards the nut.  Between those two, the position of the thumbb varies.  This is actually quite intuitive once you try it, and if you don't do it you won't get a balanced effort pressing down the strings.

You're very correct bob..good technique does not involve much thumb at all.  A good calus helps too!  I find the hardest string is string 1 (high E). You have to make sure the fold in your finger does not overlap. There is an actual technical name for that...not sure what it is.

Okay, now you guys have me going through my various books. The best description I can find on playing barre chords is from 'Pepe Romero - Guitar Style and technique', From the chapter on left hand techniques...

'The Barre.

The thumb is prehaps the most important supporting point in the barre. The pressure on the fingerboard and neck should be equally divided between fingers and thumb with the barring first finger pressing most firmly between the proximal-interphlangical joint and the distal-interphlangical joint (tip and middle knuckles for those of us who are not medically inclined - Andy).

To add pressure to the barre without creating tension, roll the index finger toward the sound hole -- do not , however, slide over the fret; keep the skin in the same place and simply roll the finger over. This also relaxes the other left hand fingers.

When barring without any other fingers down, the pressure of the thumb shoul dbe right behind the index finger. When other fingers are also holding notes, you must find the center of balance of all the fingers invovled and direct the energy of the thumb to that point.

It is very important to strengthen the barre so that the other fingers are perfrectly relaxed and able to move in any direction while the barre is being held.'


It never ceases to amaze me when I read stuff from classical players and everything is described as tension and relaxation. I'm just happy when I can play something cleanly.

Don't know if that helps or not.

Andy

Quote from: Fergy07 on July 28, 2006, 09:28:41 PM
... The pressure on the fingerboard and neck should be equally divided between fingers and thumb with the barring first finger pressing most firmly between the proximal-interphlangical joint and the distal-interphlangical joint ...

That's a great passage.  I just printed it out.  The part I selected is why you need to chabge the thumb position re the other fingers as you go up the neck, but it's put a lot better.

Thanks to everyone who chimmed in on this one....I've been out diving all week and am sorry I haven't gotten back sooner.  Lots of great advice here and plenty to work on.  I would say that developing a calus is going to be very important....just trying this chord a few times gets my finger screaming... :huh:  and some muscle development as well...the completely different postion wears my hand out fast even when I'm not pushing real hard.

Now that ya'll have provided good tchnique advice how about actual practice strategies....If I pick a shape to practice should I start by just moving that shape up and down the neck until is steady and then start mixing it up with other "normal" chord hapes? 

I really like this tune and to have it down before too long... :GRN>

thanks again

Blue

I wouldn't move the shape up and down the neck, I'd recommend working on moving chord forms around the barre. The 'E, A, and C' positions and their minor varients.

Andy

I have to disagree with the advice to "roll your index finger towards the soundhole" and "the thumb is the most important part..."  No disrespect intended to Pepe but, I tend to agree with other guitar players/instructors when discussing barre chord technique.

The important things, in my mind, are to:

1. Allow the weight of your fretting arm to apply the pressure on the fretboard
2. Keep your fretting arm elbow close to your body so as to...
3. Roll your index finger TOWARDS THE NUT so the side of your index finger (the boney part not the fleshy underside) comes in contact with the strings
4. Apply the thumb under the neck for support only - do not squeeze!

Think about it. Look at your index finger... extend it like you are pointing at someone with your palm down. Then take your other hand and push the index finger down at the fingernail. Does it bend? Of course it does!  Now turn your palm so it is facing sideways. Now take your other hand and push your index finger down at the fingertip. Does it bend? Of course not!

So if you place your index finger across the strings, roll it back towards the nut until the side of your index finger is resting on the strings and then let your fretting arm hang limp... then press lightly with your thumb, that should be enough pressure to fret the barre chord.

This works.

I think one thing we must be carefull with when we roll our index on its side towards the nut..is to NOT roll your 2 , 3..etc fingers also.so that they collapse on top of your index. My instructor keeps telling me try and keep them vertical so all the force goes down the finger.

I think rolling the index BUT keeping your other fingers more or less straight vertical is an effort in itself.

I worked on this  alittle last night and found that rolling toward the nut did seem to work better for me...rolling toward the sound hole just deadened strings and kinda jammed up all my other fingers....sigh....just gotta keep trying....its little technique things like this that make me wish I could afford and lesson or two each month....ohwell just have to fight the good fight...

thanks all

Blue

Good point Crunchy. Although I think it is all in the position of the fretting side elbow and shoulder. Also, playing in classical position seems to make barres easier too (waist on left thigh ... if right handed). As always... YMMV!

I have to agree with the advice to roll the finger towards the nut, NOT the soundhole. This tip really helped me. Just let it lean naturally in that direction, don't force it. Another thing that really helped me is lifting the  index finger up so the tip of the ifinger extends beyond the low E. It takes work but in my opinion fretting barre chords is not a matter of strength and force, it is rather touch and placement. For years I tried to force barre chords down to the neck and all I got out of it was a cramped and starined hand. Except for those with exceptionally weak hanfs I am firmly against any kind of grip exercisers, they only lead to locked in muscle tension and trouble down the road.

There's another trick I learned many centuries ago with double barres... (A shape barre chords). I barre the 234 strings with my ring finger and then drop my middle finger on top of the ring finger to give it a bit more pressure. I've done it like that for 30 years... just habit.

I've watched other guitarists - Dave Gilmour particularly - who do the double barre with their pinky! Can't get the hang of that one!

Here's a photo of my odd style of double barre.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/drathbun/Linked%20Photos/doublebarre.jpg)

Quote from: drathbun on August 04, 2006, 02:52:58 PM
There's another trick I learned many centuries ago with double barres... (A shape barre chords). I barre the 234 strings with my ring finger and then drop my middle finger on top of the ring finger to give it a bit more pressure. I've done it like that for 30 years... just habit.

I've watched other guitarists - Dave Gilmour particularly - who do the double barre with their pinky! Can't get the hang of that one!

Here's a photo of my odd style of double barre.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/drathbun/Linked%20Photos/doublebarre.jpg)

Hey doug

What do you have up there above the NUT ..wrapped around your strings?  What does it do?

for me can anyone recommend a surgeon?
my knuckles make my barres sound like a screeching cat   :(

Hey Crunchy!

That is a "Wedgie" (http://www.music123.com/Wedgie-Pick-Holder-i113467.music). It fits between the strings and holds a pick on either side.

(http://images.music123.com/products/full/Wedgie/wedg250.jpg)

I have one for each of my guitars. I know they have them for the bass too but I haven't found one yet at the stores.

Hello Blue,

Best thing I ever did for learning how to barre was to have my guitar set up professionally for fingetstyle - that is, low action. All of a sudden I could barre chords!

If your action is a bit high try tuning all six strings down half a tone then placing a capo on the first fret. Instant low action and easy barring in standard tuning!

Cheers,
Bill

Quote from: drathbun on August 04, 2006, 09:10:06 PM
Hey Crunchy!

That is a "Wedgie" (http://www.music123.com/Wedgie-Pick-Holder-i113467.music). It fits between the strings and holds a pick on either side.

(http://images.music123.com/products/full/Wedgie/wedg250.jpg)

I have one for each of my guitars. I know they have them for the bass too but I haven't found one yet at the stores.

Wow! technology at its best ..and simplest.  Now if I can find all my lost pics that are hanging out somewhere with those lost socks.

start by geting youre index finger and up and down fretboard covering all the strings.
as this will srengthen it and wont hurt as much. :thumb

Once I learned the barre cords I started using the F barre cord as my regular F cord. And now I find it easy'er to play than the normal F cord. And i'm sure that heavy use of the F barre has made the rest of them just that much easy'er to play.

Quote from: fender guy on August 29, 2006, 05:51:43 PM
start by geting youre index finger and up and down fretboard covering all the strings.
as this will srengthen it and wont hurt as much. :thumb

Very eloquent! Unusual for a Fender guy.  :doh  :WNK>