You know I consider myself to be pretty generous. I definitely like to share and I definitely like to share good experiences and good things. That isn't different with guitars. So if I have a nice guitar I want a friend to play it - get the same enjoyment I do, to see what I am talking about and to promote that guitar company.

I introduced this friend to the Larrivee since he was looking to get a nice guitar but not too expensive. Wanted a cutaway, electronics, etc. But turns out my friend is a brute with no grace whatsoever in playing. His idea of jamming and rocking out is to grasp his cowboy chords with the crush of an eagle claw (I could see him pull down the strings instead of pushing down!) and then striking the guitar with a pick as if he spazzing and having a seizure. To me louder doesn't mean better and I can play without picks if needed.

Anyways, I grit my teeth and let him play as we were all around singing and hanging out and having a good time. I also wanted him to experience a good guitar. Well he loved it but today I take it out finally b/c I couldn't bare to check and sure enough - pick marks.

What would you do? I don't want him to pay for anything but I feel he should know that he should learn to play with a little more grace - esp with other people's guitars and learn to appreciate a good guitar. Would you tell him?

Sounds like one for Dear Abby    :GRN>

Sorry 'bout your guitar.    Do you have a clear or regular type of pickguard?    or no pg??
Maybe the marks can be polished out.   


phill     :mellow:

Show him the damage he did and explain that you care about this guitar like it's your own flesh and blood. Don't let him play it again unless he uses a bit of care. You can't get him to pay for it, just make sure he knows how you feel. If he is a good friend he'll likely apologize. What more can you do?

Quote from: Daysailer on July 05, 2006, 07:46:39 PM
Sound like one for Dear Abby    :GRN>

Sorry 'bout your guitar.    Do you have a clear or regular type of pickguard?    or no pg??
maybe the marks can be polished out.   My other hobby is racing sailboats, and I have a favorite compass that
sometimes gets a bit of abuse, ie scuff marks from being stepped on or other hard part dragging accross the
clear acrilic dome.   3M makes polishing compounds that I use to completely clear up and restore the dome to
absolute clarity, with no evidence of the scuffs.  When I am ready to buff out my satin guitar I will be using these.

It has the clear pickguard - that's not the part I care about as I expect that - but the way he plays it's above the strings too in the upper bout area

Quote from: synkronized1 on July 05, 2006, 07:48:44 PM
Show him the damage he did and explain that you care about this guitar like it's your own flesh and blood. Don't let him play it again unless he uses a bit of care. You can't get him to pay for it, just make sure he knows how you feel. If he is a good friend he'll likely apologize. What more can you do?

Oh yeah - no I don't want him to pay for it. I just wonder if it's worth even telling him if I don't want any payment or anything right? He lives somewhere else - I visited some friends this weekend and brought the guitar to show him.

Quote from: WorksInTheory on July 05, 2006, 07:52:26 PM
Oh yeah - no I don't want him to pay for it. I just wonder if it's worth even telling him if I don't want any payment or anything right? He lives somewhere else - I visited some friends this weekend and brought the guitar to show him.

Oops to clarify - I meant to let him play it when I said "to show him"

Sorry to hear about your friend and his heavy attack!!!  Not sure if telling him will do much good, sounds to me like he only knows one way to play!

As for the scratches, the best product I have found that works well with minor scratches and imperfections is this finish restorer by Bruce Petros.  Here is a link to a store which sells:   http://www.electriccitymusic.com/Qstore/c000064.htm  You may also wish to check Bruce's website at:  http://www.petrosguitars.com/polish.htm  for more details on the product.

I bought all three products, the restorer, the polish and fret oil and can truly attest to the quality of the product and that it really works.  I had some minor finish spots on my Collings D-1 that I thought would be permanent.  But one application worked so well you would need a magnifying glass to even remotely see them.

As a disclaimer, I have no affiliation with the product or the store that is linked above.  Just a happy customer!   -_-

Good luck,

NewStrings

 :ph34r:

Just say what the hell man.  Show some respect for my stuff.  My friend was playing my guitar hard and he said "if i owned this i would beat the hell out of it"  and i said well you don't and i wouldn't so don't.  You have to take care of your things and sometimes that means telling your friend they are and idiot.  Oh  well, guitars are meant to be played and I'm sure it's not too bad. 

I let my friend with a heavy attack play my Marint HD-28...he bashed the back of the guitar into my computer chair repeatedly and left little pin size dings all over it...it's not surprising that both of his acoustics have areas that were wore down to bare with with his long and uncooridnated strum...my strum is loose, but it is also tight...it's all in the wrist, not the freakin bicep...for the love...

Was it Ben Franklin who said "neither a borrower nor a lender be" or some other smart guy?  I'm too lazy to google right now, but it applies here.

E. Shoaf

You must learn to stop one of those two behaviors, sharing or complaining about the after effects!   

I'm a hard picker. I NEVER pick someone else's guitar as hard as I do mine (even when encouraged). I host jams and hold my breath whenever I loan out an instrument to someone I don't know. But when I do I tell myself before I hand it over "now if this clown falls on it and busts it into splinters it's my fault and I can't get mad". I love a good jam and I've had some pleasant surprises, but I know preparing for the worse has kept me out of trouble at least once.

Don't mention it to him and don't loan to him again. If he asks to borrow again then show him and politely say no.

It's been said many times before, instruments are made to be played.

Show him the damage.Then tell him that your still friends.Then tell him if he touches your guitar again that it will be the last thing he ever does.Before you do this call his wife and ask if the insurance is paid up. :angry:

Thanks for all the great comments and sharing of your own experiences. One thing though about - guitars are meant to be played. I agree but it's like saying when someone wants to borrow your car or check out your car - are they suppose to take around turns at 60 miles and hour and floor it, etc? I think you can check out someone's guitar out without needing to do that - in any case I agree and it was one of the first things I said - I CHOSE to lend it. I just didn't know that he wasn't that good a player as far as technique. I did try to tell him about the chording and give him a tip so he doesn't get so fatigued b/c he was complaining that his fingers really hurt but I don't think he took to.

In any case I always go about people's stuff as if I am prepared to pay for it so if I want to run the risk of crashing someone's car - I am prepared to say sorry and I will pay for it. If I can't say that I won't do it.

One of the guys on our worship team has a particularly aggresive playing style. He sometimes plays drums, so one night he was there without his guitar. He wanted to demonstrate something, and held his hand out for my guitar (Pete). I took a deep breath, and said, "Russ, this guitar doesn't have a regular pickguard, which is fine with me, since I don't use a pick. I just can't let you borrow my guitar. I'm sorry, but I don't let anyone else play it." I think his feelings were a little hurt, but I couldn't bring myself to do it. I've seen the top of his guitar. It helped that my husband chimed in, "She doesn't even let me play her guitar." I'd rather have him be a little mad at me, than have to be a lot mad at him. I'm otherwise a very generous person, but some things I just won't do.

Deb

Well it's like this, would you rather trust lance armstrong riding your $5000 bike around the block? or evil keneivel.

I'd trust a few people playing my guitar...a very few...

Quote from: roknroll on July 05, 2006, 11:22:05 PM
Well it's like this, would you rather trust lance armstrong riding your $5000 bike around the block? or evil keneivel.

I'd trust a few people playing my guitar...a very few...

Well the other thing was he was trying it because he was contemplating buying it and I was contemplating selling it. But would you go and totally slam on something whether it be a car or a guitar with the owner right there and then hand it back and go nah I don't know, I think I'll wait and look around?

Anyways this forum was very helpful as a sounding board and I think I know what I am going to do. I am not going to say anything. And if I get a chance somewhere down the line, I will take that chance to mention his brute playing. In fact he's coming to my wedding in Sept and I am going to definitely bring a guitar or two and if he asks to use it - I think I will do as Deb did.

Well, most of my friends I've known for 10+ years...so it's not really uncomfortable to confront them about annoying behaviors...

I'm with Deb too!

Joe

Quote from: WorksInTheory on July 05, 2006, 07:38:11 PM
...
Anyways, I grit my teeth and let him play
...

FWIW, I'd suggest that this was the point for intervention -- as soon as the potential danger was known.

My rule: I do let others play my instruments, but only those I know have the same respect for them as I do (and a modicum of skill).

- Richard

Some folks don't mind their guitars being abused. Most of them won't mind abusing ours. I have always taken care of my guitars. However, I use a pick and there pick scratches on my guitars. When ever I bang one against something or scratch it.... I just think of Stevie Ray Vaughn's Fender strat and how abused it looked. AND Willie Nelson's guitar and how abused it looks. My pings, dings and scratches are not so bad after all. A beautiful guitar is nice to look at for sure. For me, it the sound that counts the most. The pings, dings and scratches give them character. Teddeo1000

There is a fine line between adequate care and obsessive behaviour, IMHO.

If you have a guitar that you want to remain in pristine condition it would be wise not to gig with it, or even bring it out when other players are present. If your guitar is especially appealing the temtation for others to try it out may be too much for them to overcome.

It's not that I want my guitar pristine as I definitely mean to play it, but I don't want to destroy for the sake of destroying it. There is unnecessary damage and there are accidents.

In any case I guess I rather do the abusing to my guitar if there was any abusing to be done. It's different when someone does it to your guitar when he didn't pay for it or spend the time to take care of it and set it up, etc. You spend all this time taking care of your guitar and just to to hand it to some unconcerned guy that tears it in a few seconds.

Your kid needs to be slapped around once in a while to set them in line but it's way different if someone else is slapping your kid around isn't it? (by the way this is a just a hyperbole - I do not condone or nor am I taking any stances on physical child rearing).

I let a good friend take my fairly new, fairly rare, and very expensive Ducati for a ride and when he returned he couldn't stop raving about how quick it was when it got past 7000 rpm.  Forgot to tell him it wasn't fully broken in and still had rev restrictions.  My bad.  We're still friends.  Bike is fine.

Those are nice bikes.

Here's something to think about - would your friend be as forgiving as you are if you "left your mark" on their guitar. Or let's say that car or bike has something wrong with it you didn't know and they got into an accident - would they sue or expect compensation. Who knows - I have seen best friends become enemies over worse things.

This post was totally philosophical but it did help me decide what to do. But I am not sure he would do the same. In any case was just interested if any of you came across similar situations.

I can live with dings and playing wear on my guitars, as long as I'm the one who caused them.

.

WIT,

I agree with stuco; your friend's an idiot, and what we used to call a 'boor' which means a rude and insensitive person.  Most people have enough common sense and manners to treat other people's (very nice) things with respect; he doesn't.  You're fortunate he doesn't live close to you...

Quote from: Mikeymac on July 06, 2006, 06:21:16 PM
WIT,

I agree with stuco; your friend's an idiot, and what we used to call a 'boor' which means a rude and insensitive person.  Most people have enough common sense and manners to treat other people's (very nice) things with respect; he doesn't.  You're fortunate he doesn't live close to you...

Well in his defense actually... I really think he isn't a boor. I think though he isn't aware about how bad his technique is. I think he really think he's rocking out when he plays like that and I don't think he even notices that he did any damage. Not too observant. Plus he's only had a beater Tak around so he woulnd't know the diff I guess. Probably never played a solid wood guitar before I showed him the light!

People like that have to be allowed to see the light on their own.  I posted once before about a friend of mine who is aggressively ignorant about gear; he makes a point of not learning anything about his instrument.  He decided he wanted to trade up from his Yamaha to a higher-end instruemnt.  I helped him buy a D-03.  He refused to humidify it.  He left it sitting (in its case) in the trunk of his car, outside, in sub-zero weather for three hours.  Etc. etc.  There's nothing you can do.

Quote from: Tycho on July 06, 2006, 07:31:42 PM
People like that have to be allowed to see the light on their own.  I posted once before about a friend of mine who is aggressively ignorant about gear; he makes a point of not learning anything about his instrument.  He decided he wanted to trade up from his Yamaha to a higher-end instruemnt.  I helped him buy a D-03.  He refused to humidify it.  He left it sitting (in its case) in the trunk of his car, outside, in sub-zero weather for three hours.  Etc. etc.  There's nothing you can do.

Just curious - what happened to that guitar. I ask because I once kept trying to convince someone they should brush their teeth more including at night but they were lazy. But they replied that they never had a cavity or any issues whatsoever when I had. Can't argue with that or make them see the light.

The incident where he left the D-03 out in the cold was last December.  When he got to practice and I realized he had done that, I told him to leave the guitar in its case for half an hour before opening it.  He did, and the guitar seemed fine that night, so I think it survived that incident. 

I haven't actually seen it since December, because I stopped playing with that particular band.  I said to this guy at the time, "If you don't take care of this guitar, it's like taking a thousand bucks and throwing it out the window, and I know you wouldn't do that."  I think he got the message.  But he tends not to take care of his instruments.  I was over at his house once and saw his nice American Standard Strat leaning up against the wall with no support while his kids ran around, etc.  It's sad, but it's not my problem. 

Quote from: Tycho on July 07, 2006, 09:57:39 AM
The incident where he left the D-03 out in the cold was last December.  When he got to practice and I realized he had done that, I told him to leave the guitar in its case for half an hour before opening it.  He did, and the guitar seemed fine that night, so I think it survived that incident. 

I haven't actually seen it since December, because I stopped playing with that particular band.  I said to this guy at the time, "If you don't take care of this guitar, it's like taking a thousand bucks and throwing it out the window, and I know you wouldn't do that."  I think he got the message.  But he tends not to take care of his instruments.  I was over at his house once and saw his nice American Standard Strat leaning up against the wall with no support while his kids ran around, etc.  It's sad, but it's not my problem. 

Yeah but until anything actually ever happens to the instruments he won't ever get it - just like the brushing teeth story. Until they get cavities and get drilled into - they won't take much urgency to it.

If a friend has nice guitar(s) and is a good player, I hand them my good guitars...but if someone does not have a good guitar,or their gutrar looks like hell, well it's because they don't know the difference. I would never hand my guitars to someone who comes to a jam session, and says " I don't have a guitar right now, I had to sell mine" or something like that.

That being said, I have a clear plastic buckle guard I lay on the back of my guitars, several layers thick, that stays on my guitars when I am out on the road, and can lift right off if my guitars will not get played for a week or so. It keeps the back scratches down. It does not cover the whole back, just the soccer ball sized circle that is likely to rest against my concho belt when I'm standing and playing. I don't worry about other folks' belts then if I share.

As for the front, you can do the same thing. Go to anyplace that sells fabric, upholstery materials, etc and get a sheet of that clear vinyl. It won't seem like it will cling, but it has a paper backing on it to help you find the edges, etc. Cut a circle or a pickguard or oval or whole bottom half of the front of your guitar shape, and if someone wants yto play who's style you don't know, slap it on. I keep my bucklel guard rolled up in my case when I'm not using it. If someone is offended by you putting on the guard, they don't understand...i.e. they probably should not play your good guitar.

I used to worry I'd offend, but I have only had to say "no" a few times, and ten the reply I got told me the person was drunk, or not respectful of my things anyway. Once I handed my beloved custom LS 10 to someone who banged it against a chair and then handed it so someone who got out a pick and was about to strum, when I stepped in and said, "ummmm, no picks on my guitar"
I got very selective after that!

Had a similar situation, except it was my boss.  He really started me on guitar, and lent me a nice classical that I learved to play on for a couple months.  He owns some extremely nice classicals including a Braz Ramirez thats valued about 18k. So, I am willing to let him play one of mine out of consideration and respect.  I just had a handbuilt made.  It is a Claro wlnut/ Sinker Redwood kind of Grand Auditorium style by Simon Fay.  I dont have a ton of money and Simon built the guitar at cost but it was still over a grand, and to me thats expensive, plus I worked with Simon, picked and bought the woods myself, and was very hands through the whole process.  I visited Simon twice and played two of his first guitars and then mine and another when i picked mine up, this guitar is my baby.  It's awsome and my boss was excited to see and play it, so I brought it in for him.  He came in my office and opened it up, he looked at it and i noticed he had a BIG ring on his right hand.  An then I knew what was gonna happen...ding, ding, ding...he keeps knocking the back and sides with the ring as he handes it.  My friend was in the office with me and he was cringing at the sight and the noise.  He started to play and that was better, I put a pick gaurd on (thank god) cause his pinky nail was about an inch long and he uses it for a holding point.  Well, he finished playing and layed it down gently and I thought he was done, my co-worker said "Awe man I thought we were gonna get a concert."  So my boss picks the guitar back up and plays another piece, finishes twirls the guitar around to get one last glimpse and starts to put it back in the case, and stops, hovers it about 8 in over the case and just DROPS IT IN!!!!  I was furious!  :angry: I wanted to bash him in the head with a stapler or something.  I held my tounge and stared at my guitar in shock as he leaps up out of the chair and says "nice guitar" and saunters off.  I couldnt believe it, I was dumbfounded.  I will never let him play one of my guitars ever again.  What was I supposed to do, yell at the guy who signs my paycheck?  I'm not that dumb :TON>.

I feel for you man, you want your friends to play your instruments so they know what a great instrument sounds and feels like, and you would think they above all would have the brains and courtesy to respect your belongings.  I know when my guitars get scratched or dented, a little bit of me is as well.  Its hard to keep your instuments in good shape, and I will particularily be more carful about to whom I let play my guitar. 

Sorry bout the dents  :<>
-Rich

Rich,

Your boss is definitely an idiot and a boor...

:angry: