Updated 6/25/2006 - The Larrivee I mention in this post - my DV-03E which I love dearly. I love all guitars dearly you should know - works of art - fine things, delicate things... look for my last post for more info on what happened...
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Do you guys experience sharp frets on the Larrivees? I contacted Larrivee and insisted that it wasn't a humidity problem as I took care of all that and keep it humidified and even tried over doing it to let it come back. No luck - Plus now it's summer and it's not like I live in the desert.- Larrivee said there is only one way for them to have sharp frets and that's the humidty problem and I guess that's that. I read around for awhile but did anyone ever have success with addressing this issue especially on their own?
Thanks.
While I am not challenging your humidity control, I can say that one of my Larrivees once felt a bit sharp around the frets. (no, I don't recall the time of year)I started to wondter if it had always been there, and I had somehow not notices (not likely) I took her with me when I went to the Oxnard plant and let Matthew Larrivee take a look...he sucked air in through his teeth, and gave me a short but concise and instructional lecture on climate, heat, etc.
That guitar has had a humidifior in the case since and has not has a sharp freet since.
Having seen the guys at the work bench rocking and hammering in the frets with the precision of watrchmakers, I'd be hard pressed to believe one of them would let a mistake get by. Those guys are darn proud of their work. I do hope you will let it humidify a good deal before you do anything drastic (like file frets down). Best of luck!
OK,this is not always a humity problem.When I was working for a dealer we recieved some from the factory with this problem.The best thing to do is have the ends sanded,it has nothing to do with the time of year.Why it happens,who know's.Placing blame on humity or something just getting past someone or what ever.Have it fixed and keep playin.I don't remember when another thread on this topic went down but if you want you can do a search.
OK I'm in my happy place now,the stone throwing can begin. :SHK>
I had 20+ different Larrivees in the past 03's, 05's and 09 series. I think the last 10 of them I played had frets sticking out a little. NOt enough to hurt my hand or get in the way of my playing, but definetly enough to notice and enough to bother me. I live in the San Francisco bay area where humidlity is never(usually) a problem.
Fret edges sticking out is the one thing I dislike about Larrivees. However I always come back to them because of the tone and overall quality you get for the price.
I hear you about Larrivee frets.
I think its a matter of dressing the frets, which Larrivee is obviously not much into! Both my Larrivees have somewhat sharp fret ends compared to my Loprinzi and Guild. The LS-05 I have was used (hardly) when I bought it, and the L-03R was brand-new from a reputable local authorized dealer.
All the other Larrivees I've played are similar in fact -- they have chopped-angle fret ends instead of bull-nosed rounded ends like my Loprinzi (which by the way as far as humidity goes has been with me since '84 through all kinds of conditions, moves, etc). If you were here I'd invite you to compare the beautiful smooth frets of the Loprinzi with the Larrys and you'd see what I mean!
Quote from: SongMan on June 17, 2006, 10:48:54 PM
Fret edges sticking out is the one thing I dislike about Larrivees. However I always come back to them because of the tone and overall quality you get for the price.
Songman beat me to the punch here; The frets are a
minor cavil I have about Larrivees as well -- I also tend to push the 1st string off the sharp beveled edge on the Larrys, while that NEVER happens on the Loprinzi or Guild. That said, in just about every other aspect, Larrivees are IMHO truly outstanding.
Quote from: SongMan on June 17, 2006, 10:48:54 PM
I had 20+ different Larrivees in the past 03's, 05's and 09 series. I think the last 10 of them I played had frets sticking out a little. NOt enough to hurt my hand or get in the way of my playing, but definetly enough to notice and enough to bother me. I live in the San Francisco bay area where humidlity is never(usually) a problem.
Fret edges sticking out is the one thing I dislike about Larrivees. However I always come back to them because of the tone and overall quality you get for the price.
Yes and in my search of this forum there are many counts of the recent Larrivees with this issue also. I don't think it left them the factory that way but I did read somewhere that where your guitar was made makes a difference because its used to those conditions and once it leaves things happen. In any case I need to figure out how to take care of it and would like to do it myself to see if I can save some money and learn something. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. The frets sort of... well hurt.
Wherever or however it happened, they don't seem to go back in by themselves. Getting them dressed, or doing it yourself, will make it much more pleasant to play. Give Unclrob a call, and he can probably talk you through it. The last Larrivee I bought was from him, and I suspect he dressed them a bit, because they are absolutely smooth.
Deb
OK here goes one of my top 10.Call me I talk you thru it.
And a free T-shirt for the 11th caller. Operators are standing by....
This issue does come up often. I've had to dress some of the ends on my D03R. Was it under humidfied? I don't think so but that doesn't really matter. It happens to a lot of guitars. I consider it a minor tuning issue along with the other things you go through in a good setup. The good news is that this is really easy to fix. It's just a little sharp edge right at the bottom of the fret where it meets the body binding. StewMac sells a nifty little file that is perfect for dressing fret ends that works really well.
Just talke the guitar to a good tech. I just had my D-50 looked over, dressed the frets, new Elixirs PBs, set the relief, polished it up, 75 bucks. Fixed a buzz on the A string at the second fret, which was why I took it in. Worth every penny, plays and sounds much better.
Unclrob and his peers have to eat too!!!
I have two Larrivees and they both suffer(ed) from this. One of the few complaints I've ever had about Larrivees. I suspect it's one of those business decisions they've made that allows then to sell great guitars for a great price. I for one am all for it. I bought a fret end dressing file and invest 10 minutes - problem solved. unclrob can talk you through it. It'll cost you two donuts and some corn nuts.
It seems to be more prevalent with Larrivee guitars though or atleast at the -03 level. This by the way is no way a comment on their quality - I thoroughly believe in their company and product. However on my other guitars which are older in worse shape from humidity I would say they have more rounded type fret ends.Totally agree fine guitar shops and luthiers need to eat - I love the service and the passion they give to guitars. However based on my count of strings, guitar setups, etc lately - they've been eating a lot. So it's either wait a little and spread out the costs over time or do it myself right now if I am impatient. Granted 50-60-75 bucks here and there is worth it but over many guitars all in a time period sort of takes a toll. Plus I like neat projects that make me be a lulthier wannabe. I figured out that if I win the lottery what I would do - I would go off an apprentice somewhere and learn to make a guitar.
Dan Erlewine's "Guitar Player Repair Guide" is very worth the $. It will talk you though all sorts of guitar maintenance issues.
Deb
my 0-09K certainly had sharp fret ends which were poking out some but they were easier than expected to smooth with sand paper on a small wood block since the metal was soft. from what i remember my previous OM-09 came with smooth fret ends.
I had this problem with a Taylor last year. It arrived that way and I believe it got dry before getting into my hands. My reading on this issue leads me to believe that once a fretboard shrinks, even just a little, humidity will not bring it back. Thus, the fret ends will need a little work.
If you want to give this a try yourself (I did), here is a link to a tool that will do the trick:
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Fretting_supplies/Shaping_and_crowning/Fret_End_Dressing_File.html
Nice tool to have around. Good luck with this.
Jim D
I have 20 guitars.
I have two Larrivees. (And a third one on the way.)
I have two guitars with frets extending out beyond the neck.
If you guessed the Larrivess have the fret problem, give yourself a pat on the back.
I haven't done any real damage to my hand, but I'm not happy about it. Eventually, I'll file them down. Its the only thing I don't like about these guitars.
I have this problem with my HPL Martin, which I've never bothered humidifying. I basically live with it. The guitar is still very playable.
I have four Larrivees and my D-03RE has the sharpies. The other three are fine. The D-03RE was sharp in the store and has stayed that way, even though all my gits sit in the same room. Why some Larrys have this problem while others don't is a puzzler :huh:
Quote from: Queequeg on June 19, 2006, 10:19:37 AM
I have 20 guitars.
Holy cow - you can open up an amusement park. So you have a special room? If you have a pic of your collection please post!
By the way this isn't just a Larrivee problem,I've touched up many other guitars as well.
Quote from: unclrob on June 19, 2006, 04:22:55 PM
By the way this isn't just a Larrivee problem,I've touched up many other guitars as well.
I used to teach in a crappy local shop, not even a solid top acoustic in store (all Jay Tursers and Jasmines), and every guitar on the wall had sharp fret ends. This is what happens when you have heat with no humidfier. A complete set up with my tech costs some $75-80 CDN. This includes all materials and labour for installation of a bone saddle, fret leveling and dressing, new strings, action set up...etc. Once the fret ends are filed, they will more than likely never need to be filed again. I don't think it's worth getting upset or thinking Larrivee quality control is lacking over something that's an easy and fairly permanent fix.
Quote from: Denis on June 19, 2006, 04:31:26 PM
I used to teach in a crappy local shop, not even a solid top acoustic in store (all Jay Tursers and Jasmines), and every guitar on the wall had sharp fret ends. This is what happens when you have heat with no humidfier. A complete set up with my tech costs some $75-80 CDN. This includes all materials and labour for installation of a bone saddle, fret leveling and dressing, new strings, action set up...etc. Once the fret ends are filed, they will more than likely never need to be filed again. I don't think it's worth getting upset or thinking Larrivee quality control is lacking over something that's an easy and fairly permanent fix.
Denis - actually I think it's quite the contrary - I am impressed despite this everyone who has chimed in for the most people are still solid Larrivee fans. Don't think anyone's getting too upset. But yes there are some theories on more recent Larrivees and fret ends.
Quote from: Denis on June 19, 2006, 04:31:26 PM
I used to teach in a crappy local shop, not even a solid top acoustic in store (all Jay Tursers and Jasmines), and every guitar on the wall had sharp fret ends. This is what happens when you have heat with no humidfier. A complete set up with my tech costs some $75-80 CDN. This includes all materials and labour for installation of a bone saddle, fret leveling and dressing, new strings, action set up...etc. Once the fret ends are filed, they will more than likely never need to be filed again. I don't think it's worth getting upset or thinking Larrivee quality control is lacking over something that's an easy and fairly permanent fix.
Larrivee 05 and 09 series models sell for street price of around $1200-$1500 New. Honestly, if I am paying $1500 or more for a new guitar I would like the frets to be smooth and shouln't have to pay extra for the fret job regardless of how the fret job costs.
My C-10 has always had sharp fret ends as well, so it's not just the lower end series guitars. A few of them will actually slice your fingertip if you didn't know where they were. Unfortunately I live a long ways out in the boonies where guitar tech is not exactly a common household word.So I've basically lived with it mostly since I never play the guitar. Just recently I purchased one of the Stew-Mac files thinking I would try to smooth the ends a bit. Well, actually it was several months ago and I still haven't tried it but like I said I never play this guitar.
Funny though that my OM-50 doesn't have any issues at all with the frets. I guess there's no rhyme or reason to it. I figure these things are bound to happen and no two of em are the same anyway.
Cheers
Yeah I don't know if mine will slice my finger but it does give you a sort of shock when you forget and you hit just right with your finger tips. I think it's worse when you are trying to slide between barre chords up and down the neck fast.
Makes me glad I live in an urban area with so many good luthiers and repair people nearby - Southern Ontario near the GTA -_-
Joe
PS Sorry Edmonton fans - maybe next year!
Just to play devil's advocate, though: How do you know it's not a humidity problem?
I ask because I had the same problem on my OM-03R shortly after I got it a few months ago and was convinced I needed to take it back for service. I decided to give humidifying it a try first, though, and noticed a real improvement after a week. After a couple of months of using a soundhole humidifier most of the time and an additional case humidifier occasionally, the problem's gone away.
And mind you, I live in Seattle, where we've had an unusually cool, cloudy, and wet spring.
Trent
just to throw in my 2 cents,
my OM-03MT from Dave at GA had sharp fret ends right out of the box. he keeps his guitars in humidity controlled environment and the guitar was shipped to Florida. so if the guitar got dried out it was probably up in Canada before it was shipped.
it is not that big a deal, can be fixed, but it was a little annoying. why all the defensiveness? larrivee is not perfect and is they do read this forum then maybe they will take a closer look at this.
One way to tell it's not humidity I think is to look for the other symptoms to be present too. Humidity would affect the guitar as a whole. Usually the fret ends wouldn't just be sharp - they would extend past the binding or border. Mine doesn't. The action is fine with the neck being right - it doesn't bow. Etc. The guitar is pretty much in great shape except for sharp frets. But in the end who knows exactly right - so you have to look at a numbers games. So let's say you own more than one guitar - what is happening with the other guitars. It may still be a humidty thing but maybe the Larrivee is more sensitive? Or it may be the frets period.
Quote from: WorksInTheory on June 20, 2006, 03:11:39 PM
One way to tell it's not humidity I think is to look for the other symptoms to be present too. Humidity would affect the guitar as a whole. Usually the fret ends wouldn't just be sharp - they would extend past the binding or border. Mine doesn't. The action is fine with the neck being right - it doesn't bow. Etc. The guitar is pretty much in great shape except for sharp frets. But in the end who knows exactly right - so you have to look at a numbers games. So let's say you own more than one guitar - what is happening with the other guitars. It may still be a humidty thing but maybe the Larrivee is more sensitive? Or it may be the frets period.
This is interesting. I didn't notice any of those other classic dry guitar symptoms you mention (though I don't remember if the neck had a bowing problem), though I did notice that the guitar sounded somewhat nasal (for want of a better word) and lacked sparkle before I humidified it.
The Larrivee does seem really sensitive, for whatever reason.
Good luck getting it sorted out!
Trent
Quote from: WorksInTheory on June 17, 2006, 07:31:09 PM
Do you guys experience sharp frets on the Larrivees? I contacted Larrivee and insisted that it wasn't a humidity problem as I took care of all that and keep it humidified and even tried over doing it to let it come back. No luck - Plus now it's summer and it's not like I live in the desert.- Larrivee said there is only one way for them to have sharp frets and that's the humidty problem and I guess that's that. I read around for awhile but did anyone ever have success with addressing this issue especially on their own?
Thanks.
Had the same problem with my Parlor. If it was a humidity issue it was my dealer's humidity issue. I took it back the day after I got it and they dressed them for me. The luthier in the service department did make the comment that sometimes Larrivee's are a little sharp on the edges, and they sell lots of Larrivee's there.
Quote from: unclrob on June 19, 2006, 04:22:55 PM
By the way this isn't just a Larrivee problem,I've touched up many other guitars as well.
True, my Morgan had the same issue.
Quote from: Michael K on June 21, 2006, 12:12:53 PM
Had the same problem with my Parlor. If it was a humidity issue it was my dealer's humidity issue. I took it back the day after I got it and they dressed them for me. The luthier in the service department did make the comment that sometimes Larrivee's are a little sharp on the edges, and they sell lots of Larrivee's there.
Actually you reminded me - when I took my Larrivee in for string and set up - I pointed it out too and they said the same thing - that they other Larrivees they sell have the same issue including the ones they owned personally. The funny thing is that people like Larrivees so much most times the response yeah I have that too but I just deal with it because I love the tone.
I posted about sharp fret ends a while ago here and was told a fret dressing was probably all I needed. Well, I took my OM01 in for that and a bone saddle and was told, with amazement on the repair guy's part, how "dessicated" the ebony had gotten. This, despite following humidity directions this spring. ("Keep humidfying until the trees bud out, then you're clear." I waited even a few weeks longer.) You can slip your fingernail under most of the frets.The guitar repair guy smoothed out the sharp corners, so the guitar is playable. But he said I should consider a refret job on it. I'll probably do that, but I'm still annoyed that this happened despite my efforts to humidify.
I own 3 larry's and the 03 series guitar both ahd sharp frets. One has been fixed and the Martin Service Center tolfd me the frets were not really "long" or protruding off the fretboard it was simply a matter of smoothing off the end cut of the fret. After working on the guitar he didn't beleive it as a matter of humidity but a matter of a rough fret trim. My second 03 series will go in some time -- unless I sell it first.
:<> :<> :<>... Depressed as I said. I love guitars for the works of art I think they are - such craftmanship and delicate woods and tones. And I love my DV-03E, was waiting to talk to unclrob to file the frets down. And honestly was about to sell or trade it to upgrate to another cutaway Larrivee that was fancier and if I was lucky a Koa. And then...
It was a beautiful day yesterday and I actually didn't have to mow or do yard work so what do you think about? Guitar Playing out on the deck!!! I came into the room where my guitars are. Intuitively went for the Larrivee. Took it out of the case carefully after putting the dehumidifiers aside. But then... (holding back the tears)... I didn't how close I was to the door way and turned around to walk out with my guitar side ways!!!
The good news is it didn't put a single dent into the guitar - which I wish did happen. Because what happened was really weird - maybe it was the speed of the way I was walk or the exact strength of the motion forward but what I gather is that the doorway pushed the side of the guitar (lower bout below side) and it seems the curvature there was flexible and it pushed in and then back out. Which caused I want to say a crack in the side. I am pretty sure it is but its back to normal form immediately and the crack is tight so it looks more scratchy. I think it caused a small crack on top too but again there are really tight together.
Can I fix this or will this be an issue if left alone? I've only finally been able to talk about this today. As you can imagine how I felt all day - it's like Guitar cruelty and I always wondered to myself what person let's a nice guitar get cracks - do they not take care of them, etc. Now I know. It's idiots like me and freak accidents like this one... Well I guess this one is also a keeper as I won't be able to sell it or trade to upgrade now I don't think either. I think someone up there is trying to tell me to stop buying guitars!
:<> :<> :<>
Any way you can post a pix?If you can get your hand inside of the guitar anf feel around and maybe LIGHTLY push on that area and check for movement.CALL ME EST at 850-545-7795 Monday 9-6.
Quote from: unclrob on June 25, 2006, 04:23:40 PM
Any way you can post a pix?If you can get your hand inside of the guitar anf feel around and maybe LIGHTLY push on that area and check for movement.CALL ME EST at 850-545-7795 Monday 9-6.
It's hard to see - in the side picture you can sort of see it - it's whiter... um maybe cos' I tried to smear some woodglue into it to stabilize it but before it dried I wiped it off so I don't know if I did better or worse. Then on the top pic you can hardly see the hairline in person but you can't get it on pic.
Thanks for the contact info - I haven't called you yet even for the fret redress because I have been in training for a new job role and man do they keep you busy all day long during work hours and I am one hour behind you CST. As soon as I have a chance to breathe I will call - hey do you have a website up yet? I recall you saying you were looking into that.
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:<> I'm sorry to hear about this. I'd feel the same way. We've ALL - well maybe not all, but you can count me as one - done stuff like that, even when we try to be careful, and are just happy when it turns out not so bad. I don't think it undoes or makes any less important being careful - we'd have even more mishaps otherwise. . . . But life happens and we go on . . .
Most importantly, I am glad to see that unclrob is already in touch with you.
I'd probaby not do any more ad hoc repairs (e.g., adding glue) . . . and I'd get a professional to check it out locally unless you are sending to unclrob. But I don't have anything expert to say on this. I imagine it's repairable, whatever it turns out to be - even, worst case, a crack should be repairable - plenty of guitars out there sounding and playing just fine with crack repairs. They just have extra character.
I hope it all works out . . .
OK I need you to LIGHTLY push the wood in the damage zone.First go to the other side and push in this area to get a feel for how it should be,then do the other side.Does it feel different?If it feels soft then and it show's sign that the wood has split a little,bring it in to your local Tech and have it fixed.If its just a finish seperation you may want to concider some refin work.If you call the # it refers to and after hours # please feel free to call me.
Newbie here, but just wanted to say that I have a LV-03R and a Parlor. Both had sharp fret ends and I dressed them myself. It appeared to be the way the frets were cut that made them sharp but it was an easy fix.
I've also played some new ones with sharp frets although not all of them were like this.
I also have a Martin OM-28 Marquis but I'm a steadfast Larrivee fan.
Quote from: SongMan on June 17, 2006, 10:48:54 PM
I had 20+ different Larrivees in the past 03's, 05's and 09 series.
Sweet Fancy Moses on Buttered Toast! How do you go through 20 Larrivees! Too curious not to ask what it is exactly you're waiting to find in one?
wokrsintheory -- first of all -- lay off the glue -- don't try to fix this on your own. Second, slack down the strings until you can get a gutar repair center to look at the crack -- third.. all is not lost my frirend.... my best sounding Martin has a very stable repair in a side crack that looks no worse than what I see in your picture. This is repairable but just get ther string tension off the body of the guitar and get a real serviceman to work on it. They will repair the crack from the inside and it will be more stable than before the crack without any noticeable deterioration in the guitar's sound. A top crack is sometyhing else. Once the finish crack is repaired, you'll have a tough time finding the crack. But find a an excellent luthier/repairan.
:ph34r:
Dude, Dude,
why? Its ok at least you have an excuse to take it in to have the frets worked on. It looks very fixable. I've done some stupd stuff myself. One time I tried to refinish a pefectly good ibanez body. and completely ruined it. Just the other day I decided to add a Larrivee End pin you know the one that fits a endpin jack hole. Anyway drilling away at my prized yairi I chiped the hell out of my finish and also in a panic scratched more of the finish tryingto sand the chiped finish. Now it has the new larrivee endpin and a big metal washer around it. I've realized if you ever want to modify or fix a guitar take a moment and think about if you are qualified for a long time b4 you touch that thing. Besides installing tuners or putting a strap button I've decided to take it to a gutar tech. I'd love to build guitars but don't know if i have the steady hand and patience. Just send it to uunclrob and let him fix your baby to new. And fix the frets too. hey theres one good thing about it.
Quote from: stuco on June 26, 2006, 05:54:34 PM
:ph34r:
Dude, Dude,
why? Its ok at least you have an excuse to take it in to have the frets worked on. It looks very fixable. I've done some stupd stuff myself. One time I tried to refinish a pefectly good ibanez body. and completely ruined it. Just the other day I decided to add a Larrivee End pin you know the one that fits a endpin jack hole. Anyway drilling away at my prized yairi I chiped the hell out of my finish and also in a panic scratched more of the finish tryingto sand the chiped finish. Now it has the new larrivee endpin and a big metal washer around it. I've realized if you ever want to modify or fix a guitar take a moment and think about if you are qualified for a long time b4 you touch that thing. Besides installing tuners or putting a strap button I've decided to take it to a gutar tech. I'd love to build guitars but don't know if i have the steady hand and patience. Just send it to uunclrob and let him fix your baby to new. And fix the frets too. hey theres one good thing about it.
Stuco - I actually clenched my teeth and flinched reading this! I just talked to unclrob on the phone - Straight up guy. I wish he was local and I'd be there in a heartbeat. I just hate sending this guitar around the country as FedEx running over it would be another post. I check out the local luthier here - I haven't fed him in a few weeks so he's overdue.
Always best to go local.You get cheaper visitation rights,no flying. :GRN>
I'm sorry to read about what happened to your guitar but I will highly recommend sending it to Unclrob. He did a repair for me once and it came back perfect. Couldn't tell it had been touched other than the fact that it was fixed. I live in a large city and I wouldn't trust anybody here with one of my guitars but that's another issue entirely.
:ph34r:
Like I said I did cover up my mistake with a washer and it's virtually unnoticable unless you look close (or take off the end pin) Oh well, It's just charachter i guess. Good luck with your guitar. hey I guess it could've been worse for both of us.
unclrob - I came home after we spoke and pushed on it again and realized it isn't that soft. You have to push real hard to get some move. I haven't checked from inside out yet as I need to remove strings... that's the other thing - does it matter about string tension if the damage is on the side mostly? In any case as soon as I can I am going to take it in for an in person inspection - and hopefully they will hide their laughter till after I leave...
Since its stiff then I'd say its a finish issue BUT bring it by your tech and double check.For me since I'm so used to putting my arm inside all I do is loosen the strings.Sometimes I pull the pegs and tie off the strings,but I'm crazy look what I do for a living. :GRN>You don't have to d-tune the guitar.Hows that top crack looking does it move any?Also a good tech will laugh after you've left. :SHK>
Only kidding. :GRN>
Well was able to get into the local store here and see a luthier. On the Larrivee he couldn't fix it yet because the crack was too tight! (wait that's funny to say!) Anyways. He says to wait to it's time to dehydrate again so it opens up enough to get in glue. But right now the seams between the cracks are really close together because it's right around the kerfing I guess.
On another guitar that I didn't own less than 24hrs it seems a crack was born around the upper left corner of the preamp by the screw. Seems like an issue with the same model guitars I have seen online. But since I am not the original owner probably won't get warranty service. Luthier said also to come back in August for this one - he's booked until then. By the one anyone ever get hit by a snapped high e string? Man I turned tuners the wrong way when changing the string on this and it snapped and whipped across my leg and cut it! Dangerous. After that I noticed the crack but the luthier thinks they are unrelated.
Not been an easy time lately for me and guitars... that's why my SPJC-16RE is not seeing the light of day until things settle down!