Hi all, I was recently reading and following several AMA's over at reddit and I thought that you guys might enjoy something like that here.  Have you ever wanted to ask something of Larrivee? We'll here's your opportunity – Trivial, or Enormous: Ask away!

For those that don't know me, I'm Matthew Larrivee son of Jean and Wendy Larrivee, and a second generation guitar builder. I manage the shop here in California, build guitars, and do most of the R&D.

Hey Matt. How's things? How high is up? Who put the bop in the bop sha bop sha bop? When are you going to build a 330/335 style electric or an arch top? Why are there never good answers to good questions?

Hi Matt....wait that sounds like the beginning of an AA meeting.No questions at this point but maybe if I ever have money to spend again I'll come up with something. :wave

Hi Matt,

I'll bite and ask a serious question (or two or three):

You've told us your responsibility at Larrivee; what is John Jr.'s job description?
Are there other family members active in the business beyond the four you've listed?

What's your timeline for revealing the specs of the 50th Anniversary model, and when will you start taking orders?

:thumb

Quote from: Mikeymac on August 23, 2016, 01:33:59 PM
Hi Matt,

I'll bite and ask a serious question (or two or three):

You've told us your responsibility at Larrivee; what is John Jr.'s job description?
Are there other family members active in the business beyond the four you've listed?

What's your timeline for revealing the specs of the 50th Anniversary model, and when will you start taking orders?

:thumb

:+1:

Quote from: ducktrapper on August 23, 2016, 01:16:18 PM
Hey Matt. How's things? How high is up? Who put the bop in the bop sha bop sha bop? When are you going to build a 330/335 style electric or an arch top? Why are there never good answers to good questions?

Archtops and Semi Hollow guitars are still on the agenda, but they are admittedly at the back of the line right now. The market for electric guitars softened dramatically about a year and a half ago and we're waiting for it to return before we put "energy" into the process. We've actually done a lot of work towards archtops already include a carve top programs for a single cutaway, and body designs for a dual cutaway offset body. We've also already done some extensive pickup designs including a reproduction of old DeArmond 1100 Rhythm Chief, and some special Humbucker and P-90 designs. I can't see it being sooner than 3+ years away at this point.

We have several new instruments being built right now including 3 new classical guitars, and some other yet to be release items. Most of our energy is being put into these models right now. We're also doing large runs of new marquetry inlays showing as well

Quote from: Matthew Larrivee on August 23, 2016, 02:45:12 PM
The market for electric guitars softened dramatically about a year and a half ago and we're waiting for it to return before we put "energy" into the process.

We have several new instruments being built right now including 3 new classical guitars, and some other yet to be release items. Most of our energy is being put into these models right now.

A hard market for Classicals - wouldn't have guessed that.

Quote from: Mikeymac on August 23, 2016, 01:33:59 PM


What's your timeline for revealing the specs of the 50th Anniversary model, and when will you start taking orders?

This  :thumb

Quote from: Mikeymac on August 23, 2016, 01:33:59 PM
Hi Matt,

I'll bite and ask a serious question (or two or three):

You've told us your responsibility at Larrivee; what is John Jr.'s job description?
Are there other family members active in the business beyond the four you've listed?

What's your timeline for revealing the specs of the 50th Anniversary model, and when will you start taking orders?

:thumb

My brother currently resides in Canada and travels here regularly. He's currently handling all of the Marketing, Social Media Presence, Photography, Online Store, and a good portion of the customer service. When here in California he helps out in the shop with Neck fit, and whatever else needs to be done.

Involved in the business are my Father, Mother, Myself, and my Brother. My sister Christine was for a long time but she's moved to Calgary with her husband and is an amazing teacher now. My 12 year old son comes and helps me over the summer and has already told me this is what he wants to do – he's known it since he was 6 or 7. He comes and passes me guitars as a route binding, catches parts for me on the thickness sander, and helps around. I try not to push him too hard so that it doesn't become a chore for him.

We're really starting the 50th plans now in earnest. I think we'll probably over several smaller runs of varying cost and features. I would guess a month or two from now you'll know more

Quote from: Matthew Larrivee on August 23, 2016, 02:45:12 PM
Archtops and Semi Hollow guitars are still on the agenda, but they are admittedly at the back of the line right now. The market for electric guitars softened dramatically about a year and a half ago and we're waiting for it to return before we put "energy" into the process. We've actually done a lot of work towards archtops already include a carve top programs for a single cutaway, and body designs for a dual cutaway offset body. We've also already done some extensive pickup designs including a reproduction of old DeArmond 1100 Rhythm Chief, and some special Humbucker and P-90 designs. I can't see it being sooner than 3+ years away at this point.

We have several new instruments being built right now including 3 new classical guitars, and some other yet to be release items. Most of our energy is being put into these models right now. We're also doing large runs of new marquetry inlays showing as well

3+ years? I'm saving up now!

Matthew, a question was asked on the forum just a few weeks ago with regard to the Larrivee family guitar collections, like basically what they consist of and how many, and who are the players in the family besides Jean?  If you responded I missed it and I apologize for asking it again...

Matthew,

Thanks so much for doing this, not to mention making amazing instruments at prices we can afford! 

I'm curious as to what you think Larrivee's best wood combination is.  What is your favorite?

  How is top wood selection done?  Does stiffness come into play and are they shaved down based on that?  Or, is there a standard spec for thickness?
Thanks!

Two questions

1) What is your favorite body shape and why?

2) How did Larrivee land on the design and neck shape of the 12 string models?

I played a lot of 12 strings before I ordered my Larrivee and nothing came close in terms of comfort, tone, workmanship and value.

Thanks.

Quote from: Treenewt on August 23, 2016, 03:35:19 PM
Matthew,

Thanks so much for doing this, not to mention making amazing instruments at prices we can afford! 

I'm curious as to what you think Larrivee's best wood combination is.  What is your favorite?

I think if you were to ask each of us Larrivee's then you'd get different answers – Mostly because as we age our hearing changes and we enjoy different sounds. As you get older you lose high frequency hearing so brighter sounding guitars become more appealing as you compensate for hearing loss. Personally I currently really like Black walnut, and other low-med density woods such as light weight swamp ash and silver oak. The Black walnut / Alpine moon spruce or walnut / walnut are my current favorites.

Quote from: B0WIE on August 23, 2016, 06:53:42 PM
  How is top wood selection done?  Does stiffness come into play and are they shaved down based on that?  Or, is there a standard spec for thickness?
Thanks!

The process is a little different for different varieties of spruce because how we obtain the wood is slightly different. How a top is selected occurs a few different ways. Generally, we start with sets of AA and AAA wood and we plain or sand one side just to get a visual look at the wood. Rejects are turned into the thin brace stock (which we refer to as fingers, and tongues). From there my dad will join them and a team of two people glue them up as fast as he can join them. We usually do this once every month and a half and it takes a couple of days. From there I plane and sand them down to rough thickness.

Jean, or very rarely me when he's away travelling, will then grade them into 4 rough grades 03, 40, 09, and "reserve". At this point were deciding on a few different factors including width of grain, compression, run out, stiffness, and color. Different grades have different requirements. So for example with the 40's we try to pick tops that have wider grain and medium to high stiffness, 09 tops will generally get tighter grain and so on and so forth. The process really gets to the heart of the art of Luthiery as it is the maker using feeling and intuition to decide. When we hold a piece of wood in our hand we can know in a heartbeat or two what it's going to be by visual inspection, tactile feedback through flexing the soundboard, and gut intuition. I'm a very logical thinker, and for me this process is very hard to describe because it's not a process that can be easily defined by scientific method. it's an art.

From here we grade further, so from the -03 stack we take the lowest grade top and turn them into -02's, from the reserve grade the best become Presentations and show guitars, etc.

Once graded, we then install the rosette and the top is then sanded to the final thickness. While there are general rules for thickness, we make adjustments for individual tops. For example if the top is very stiff I'll thin it out a little extra when doing the final thickness sanding. After final thickness sanding we grade the tops again, this time primarily bases on looks and stiffness – For example from the 09 stack the less stiff tops will become -05's and so on.

Quote from: teh on August 23, 2016, 07:18:59 PM
Two questions

1) What is your favorite body shape and why?

2) How did Larrivee land on the design and neck shape of the 12 string models?

I played a lot of 12 strings before I ordered my Larrivee and nothing came close in terms of comfort, tone, workmanship and value.

Thanks.

Hmm that's a tough one. Sound wise I really like OM's and LV's but from a building perspective I like building L's and D's. Two of the tasks that I do on a daily basis are routing the binding/purfling channels and side sanding after binding; and the most difficult guitars to do are OM and LV because of the tight curves. So we'll call it a love hate relationship.  :tongue:

As far as the 12 string neck goes the shape is very similar to the six string and is based on a three-point arc, so it is a true portion of a circle, not a ellipse as people often think. Most probably what you're experiencing a really good setup. Thank you for the compliment

OK I came up with a question...are you talking archtops like L7's and L5"s or are talking 335 or 330 style's?

Quote from: Matthew Larrivee on August 23, 2016, 11:09:56 PM
The process is a little different for different varieties of spruce because how we obtain the wood is slightly different. How a top is selected occurs a few different ways. Generally, we start with sets of AA and AAA wood and we plain or sand one side just to get a visual look at the wood. Rejects are turned into the thin brace stock (which we refer to as fingers, and tongues). From there my dad will join them and a team of two people glue them up as fast as he can join them. We usually do this once every month and a half and it takes a couple of days. From there I plane and sand them down to rough thickness.

Jean, or very rarely me when he's away travelling, will then grade them into 4 rough grades 03, 40, 09, and "reserve". At this point were deciding on a few different factors including width of grain, compression, run out, stiffness, and color. Different grades have different requirements. So for example with the 40's we try to pick tops that have wider grain and medium to high stiffness, 09 tops will generally get tighter grain and so on and so forth. The process really gets to the heart of the art of Luthiery as it is the maker using feeling and intuition to decide. When we hold a piece of wood in our hand we can know in a heartbeat or two what it's going to be by visual inspection, tactile feedback through flexing the soundboard, and gut intuition. I'm a very logical thinker, and for me this process is very hard to describe because it's not a process that can be easily defined by scientific method. it's an art.

From here we grade further, so from the -03 stack we take the lowest grade top and turn them into -02's, from the reserve grade the best become Presentations and show guitars, etc.

Once graded, we then install the rosette and the top is then sanded to the final thickness. While there are general rules for thickness, we make adjustments for individual tops. For example if the top is very stiff I'll thin it out a little extra when doing the final thickness sanding. After final thickness sanding we grade the tops again, this time primarily bases on looks and stiffness – For example from the 09 stack the less stiff tops will become -05's and so on.

Wow, thanks!  Such wonderful insight!  I've seen this pondered and debated here for years but you just cleared it all up.

Quote from: Mikeymac on August 23, 2016, 01:33:59 PM
Hi Matt,

I'll bite and ask a serious question (or two or three):

Are you suggesting my questions aren't serious? I'm hurt.

Matthew. Does Larrivee still have its own saw mill? Are you still supplying wood for other builders. Are any other guitar brands, fully or in part, being built at your plant?   

Quote from: Matthew Larrivee on August 23, 2016, 12:36:19 PM
Hi all, I was recently reading and following several AMA's over at reddit and I thought that you guys might enjoy something like that here.  Have you ever wanted to ask something of Larrivee? We'll here's your opportunity – Trivial, or Enormous: Ask away!

Excellent Thread Matthew!  It will likely be the Forum favorite!  Thanks so much for answering our questions.

Next question;  Do you plan on offering Indonesian Ebony to any standard model lines or only as a custom?

Second question;  Recently Dave's Woodstock had a single D-40R with a Torrified top that sounded awesome.  Is there a plan to offer this as an option?

Thanks

Maybe this question was answered a long time ago but, up to now, I've never gotten a straight answer.

Way back in 2001, I was looking for a good acoustic and after trying a few Martin's, the salesman put a Larrivee L-01 in my hands. It blew every guitar away but, up to that point, I had never heard of Larrivee. I decided to get it anyhow on sound alone. Rumour had it that that run of "01's" was destined for Japan but the deal fell through.

I'm curious on what the true story is behind that run of 01's. People that own them just love them (including Willie Watson and his OM-01 from the same run) and would be great to know the story behind them.

Quote from: homme de fer on August 24, 2016, 10:49:25 AM
Maybe this question was answered a long time ago but, up to now, I've never gotten a straight answer.

Way back in 2001, I was looking for a good acoustic and after trying a few Martin's, the salesman put a Larrivee L-01 in my hands. It blew every guitar away but, up to that point, I had never heard of Larrivee. I decided to get it anyhow on sound alone. Rumour had it that that run of "01's" was destined for Japan but the deal fell through.

I'm curious on what the true story is behind that run of 01's. People that own them just love them (including Willie Watson and his OM-01 from the same run) and would be great to know the story behind them.

Good question. The 01's were steals of a deal. I've had a L-01 (now with my step son in law) and still have my OM-01. Paid less than $400 for each of them. I miss the L but still get to play in occasionally.

I played the heck out of my L-01 since I bought it in 2001 but had a motorcycle accident (hit a bear), broke my wrist, and found 12-fret guitars were WAY more manageable. I picked up an OM-03 MT 12-fret sunburst and haven't been able to put it down since (bought it in January 2015). I played my L-01 again last week for the first time in a long time and that thing is an absolute cannon of a guitar; so bright and loud compared to anything but a D-18. The top has mellowed into a nice yellow colour and time has clearly done it some good. An absolute steal at their price, which is why I'd love to know the story behind it.

I keep thinking, since the all hog bodies are my preference, that maybe I should sell it and get some kind of all hog parlour or 00 size guitar. But I know I'll kick myself if I ever give up that guitar.

Quote from: homme de fer on August 24, 2016, 02:17:29 PM
I played the heck out of my L-01 since I bought it in 2001 but had a motorcycle accident (hit a bear), broke my wrist, and found 12-fret guitars were WAY more manageable. I picked up an OM-03 MT 12-fret sunburst and haven't been able to put it down since (bought it in January 2015). I played my L-01 again last week for the first time in a long time and that thing is an absolute cannon of a guitar; so bright and loud compared to anything but a D-18. The top has mellowed into a nice yellow colour and time has clearly done it some good. An absolute steal at their price, which is why I'd love to know the story behind it.

I keep thinking, since the all hog bodies are my preference, that maybe I should sell it and get some kind of all hog parlour or 00 size guitar. But I know I'll kick myself if I ever give up that guitar.

If you ever wanted to sell it, I'd certainly be interested.   

Quote from: Matthew Larrivee on August 23, 2016, 10:36:19 PM
I think if you were to ask each of us Larrivee's then you'd get different answers – Mostly because as we age our hearing changes and we enjoy different sounds. As you get older you lose high frequency hearing so brighter sounding guitars become more appealing as you compensate for hearing loss. Personally I currently really like Black walnut, and other low-med density woods such as light weight swamp ash and silver oak. The Black walnut / Alpine moon spruce or walnut / walnut are my current favorites.

Do you think the American Black Walnut sounds much different than the Peruvian Walnut?  I have an SD60 walnut over walnut out of Peruvian...  There is  talk on the forum about Walnut/Walnut fairly frequently (it looks so good too!), I am certain the members would like to hear your opinion of both...

Quote from: georbro3 on August 24, 2016, 03:20:20 PM
Do you think the American Black Walnut sounds much different than the Peruvian Walnut?  I have an SD60 walnut over walnut out of Peruvian...  There is  talk on the forum about Walnut/Walnut fairly frequently (it looks so good too!), I am certain the members would like to hear your opinion of both...

For those who haven't heard, Larrivee has a limited number of really outstanding Austrian walnut sets.  

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y122/travette/get-attachmentaspx-1.jpeg)

Matthew's comments about walnut, and the mention of Austrian walnut, is causing me GAS...

And I just got a new Larrivee this week! 

Help me!

Not many guitar manufactures would genuinely interact with the public/customers this way. The more I see the more convinced I am that Larrivee is truly something special. I hear and feel it in their guitars but also see it through their actions. Unbelievable thread.   

They don't build only excellent guitars, the way the Larrivée family talks about the buildingproces of their guitars, the woods, the art of lutherie, shows us the love and passion to create. The beautiful thing is they make their artpieces affordabel to everybody. This kind of tread or any reply on this forum from the Larrivée family shows us that they don't only care about production and money, they care about their customers. This is why I' ve choosen to play Larrivée guitars. Thanks to the family.
Maybe a small question, with all the waxes and oils on the market, use this, don't use that, cheap, expensive, marketing. What does Larrivée recommends to clean and to maintain the good condition of the guitar, beside of wiping down with a soft cloth and keeping the humidity optimal?

I almost hesitate to ask, cause I expect I could guess the answer I'll get, but anyway. . .

There's a cutaway offered for the L, the C, the LS, the OM and the P, but to get a cutaway on an OO requires a custom order. Will that ever change?

I have a lovely all mahogany OOV-03 you guys made for me and I love the size and tone.  But my crappy vocal range requires me to capo up to A quite a bit so the cutaway sure comes in handy and I'm craving a spruce top OOV.  :crying: :blush:

Quote from: homme de fer on August 24, 2016, 10:49:25 AM
Maybe this question was answered a long time ago but, up to now, I've never gotten a straight answer.

Way back in 2001, I was looking for a good acoustic and after trying a few Martin's, the salesman put a Larrivee L-01 in my hands. It blew every guitar away but, up to that point, I had never heard of Larrivee. I decided to get it anyhow on sound alone. Rumour had it that that run of "01's" was destined for Japan but the deal fell through.

I'm curious on what the true story is behind that run of 01's. People that own them just love them (including Willie Watson and his OM-01 from the same run) and would be great to know the story behind them.

Well the story of the -01's is mostly true if just incomplete. The -01 was designed at a time when we were in the Canadian shop. The thing to remember as I explain this was at the time was that 1 US dollar was worth about 1.45 Canadian.

So different markets around the world have different requirements because of different economic situations. Distributors in a few countries, particularly in Japan, were struggling with high end guitars because of a strong US Dollar. Even when we were in Canada all of the guitars we produced were sold in US Dollars. A few of our distributors expressed a need for a low cost guitar to help get through the times where the exchange rate was weak for them.

In turn we delivered the -01 series to these markets. The only way it was possible was to leverage the weakness of the Canadian dollar. They were generally very similar to the -03 series, but without binding.

Occasionally we would have a few extra -01's (or in one instant a distributor had to cancel a large order due to the exchange rate) and those we would release to a select few domestic dealers.

Today a guitar like the -01 is not feasible. We just can't make a low end guitar to save our lives – Mostly because we just don't want to build with inferior materials and methods – Everytime we design a new guitar we say things like "no we don't want to use laminates" or "No we don't want to do a bolt on" and so on and so forth.

Quote from: georbro3 on August 24, 2016, 03:20:20 PM
Do you think the American Black Walnut sounds much different than the Peruvian Walnut?  I have an SD60 walnut over walnut out of Peruvian...  There is  talk on the forum about Walnut/Walnut fairly frequently (it looks so good too!), I am certain the members would like to hear your opinion of both...

They both produce distinctive tones. From a builders stand point I prefer the Black Walnut as it works a lot better. It's also a very environmentally friendly wood as the black walnut we use is a byproduct of the laminate industry. It's air dried which is a huge plus and there is a lot of it out there. We originally started working heavily with walnut because of fallout from the Gibson legal mess; Indian Rosewood shipments were halted until the harmonized tariff code mess was sorted out. We needed to search for a rosewood alternative and we've always liked walnut. We started with Peruvian walnut which is not a true walnut because it was available very quickly, but the supplier wasn't able to secure it fast enough so we started working with the Black walnut. We just heard recently that Indian Rosewood may gain CITES protection in the next few months which has the potential to alter the supply. This is part of the reason why we are doing larger runs of different dark woods such as Laurel and Walnut. It creates a win win situation for everyone.

I hate to use the cliche "It's half way between mahogany and rosewood" but Peruvian is much more similar to mahogany, and black walnut is really half way between the two.

Quote from: Davy Vanthuyne on August 24, 2016, 05:46:15 PM
Maybe a small question, with all the waxes and oils on the market, use this, don't use that, cheap, expensive, marketing. What does Larrivée recommends to clean and to maintain the good condition of the guitar, beside of wiping down with a soft cloth and keeping the humidity optimal?

For satin finish I would use lighter fluid like Ronsonol. Put it on a micro fiber cloth then gently wipe down.

For Gloss I would use a good guitar polish. We use Ken Smith polish at the factory.

Hello Matthew, thanks for taking time to answer our questions.
A few years ago the ooo was offered with a 1 13/16" nut , twelve fret neck. Would you customize an L with that neck? A couple years ago Wildwood music had a 12 fret L, but with a cutaway.  I was sore tempted but passed anyway. Thanks again

Hi Matthew,

Thanks for being accessible this way.

How does the used market factor into your plans?

Someone attributed this sentiment to Jean, that the greatest competition for new Larrivée sales is used Larrivées.  However that shakes out, I get the impression that many sales of used Larrivées are existing customers making room for a new Larrivée acquisition. In that respect, it's a wash. And, if this forum is a microcosm of the world, then buyers of used Larrivées are also great prospects for a new one someday. 

Enough of rambling.

Back to the question: How does the used market factor into your plans?

Thanks Matthew!

Thanks for doing this Matthew! How very gracious of you!  :+1:  :thumb

Matthew,

Thanks for this thread.

I have two questions.

1)  Does Larrivee use a PLEK machine/process and, if so, how is that working out?

2)  If Larrivee does not use a PLEK machine/process, why?

Quote from: Walkerman on August 24, 2016, 03:48:47 PM
For those who haven't heard, Larrivee has a limited number of really outstanding Austrian walnut sets.  

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y122/travette/get-attachmentaspx-1.jpeg)

Outstanding Steve!  Thanks for the share.  I do believe this thread is going to be the New Never Ending one for as long as Matthew wants to participate...   :thumb

Quote from: georbro3 on August 25, 2016, 03:17:44 PM
  I do believe this thread is going to be the New Never Ending one for as long as Matthew wants to participate...   :thumb

Yes, why ask the Forum when you can go to The Man himself  :?

Can this thread be thumb tacked to the main forum page so we can find and check it regularly...

Would be a great reference tool, too....    :guitar

Quote from: bobw on August 25, 2016, 05:07:45 PM
Can this thread be thumb tacked to the main forum page so we can find and check it regularly...

Would be a great reference tool, too....    :guitar

Sure; the thread that replaces all other threads - the true Thread Ender (http://www.larriveeforum.com/smf/index.php?topic=28713.0)

Quote from: jpmist on August 24, 2016, 09:39:35 PM
I almost hesitate to ask, cause I expect I could guess the answer I'll get, but anyway. . .

There's a cutaway offered for the L, the C, the LS, the OM and the P, but to get a cutaway on an OO requires a custom order. Will that ever change?

I have a lovely all mahogany OOV-03 you guys made for me and I love the size and tone.  But my crappy vocal range requires me to capo up to A quite a bit so the cutaway sure comes in handy and I'm craving a spruce top OOV.  :crying: :blush:

It will for the foreseeable future remain a custom order. OO cutaway is probably the most difficult cutaway we do. The body shape is relatively awkward to begin with - and making the shape of the cutaway work with that body is very difficult. Though we require a deposit to make a guitar like that we don't really charge any more to make that.

Quote from: broKen on August 24, 2016, 11:56:56 PM
Hello Matthew, thanks for taking time to answer our questions.
A few years ago the ooo was offered with a 1 13/16" nut , twelve fret neck. Would you customize an L with that neck? A couple years ago Wildwood music had a 12 fret L, but with a cutaway.  I was sore tempted but passed anyway. Thanks again

That wouldn't be a problem at all. We're trying to limit the number of different scale lengths we do as they are the most challenging, but a simple nut width change is not a problem.

ML

Quote from: ST on August 25, 2016, 12:36:19 AM
Hi Matthew,

Thanks for being accessible this way.

How does the used market factor into your plans?

Someone attributed this sentiment to Jean, that the greatest competition for new Larrivée sales is used Larrivées.  However that shakes out, I get the impression that many sales of used Larrivées are existing customers making room for a new Larrivée acquisition. In that respect, it's a wash. And, if this forum is a microcosm of the world, then buyers of used Larrivées are also great prospects for a new one someday. 

Enough of rambling.

Back to the question: How does the used market factor into your plans?

Thanks Matthew!

To be honest the used market doesn't factor into any decision that we make.

To me what is interesting is that often time there is a perception in the guitar world that "The old ones are better". This may be true of other makers – i.e. during the CBS era, fender owners would be correct in saying that. With Larrivee, both Jean and I feel the opposite. We constantly learn new things and incorporate that learning into the instrument to improve it. We both feel that the guitar we make today is far superior to the instruments made even 10 years ago.

Just today my dad and I were in the car on the way to a lumber yard and we got talking about a major thing we figured out about bending sides just six months ago. He said to me it blew his mind that in 50 years he had never figured it out. This little new "trade secret" will improve all the guitars we make, structurally and tonally, going forward.

Maybe I'm naïve in thinking that most guitar making companies always want to improve. Maybe if your name is not on the headstock you can more easily think about profit/loss instead of pride and legacy?

Thank you Matthew,

Quote from: Matthew Larrivee on August 25, 2016, 10:22:25 PM
To be honest the used market doesn't factor into any decision that we make.

Clear and simple. I appreciate that.

Quote
To me what is interesting is that often time there is a perception in the guitar world that "The old ones are better".

This particular meme serves the people who own the old ones.

A less cynical view holds that there are better and lesser of everything made in quantity. Those things that survive the ravages of time are probably the better ones.

A musicologist suggested that I consider musical compositions. Of all the music written, only the best  survives, and it survives because it was good, and played, and treasured, and played over and over again.

Her premise was: Old is not necessarily good.  Old that has passed through the filter of time and discerning hands has proven its value.  

Quote
This may be true of other makers – i.e. during the CBS era, fender owners would be correct in saying that.

With Larrivee, both Jean and I feel the opposite. We constantly learn new things and incorporate that learning into the instrument to improve it. We both feel that the guitar we make today is far superior to the instruments made even 10 years ago.

Just today my dad and I were in the car on the way to a lumber yard and we got talking about a major thing we figured out about bending sides just six months ago. He said to me it blew his mind that in 50 years he had never figured it out. This little new "trade secret" will improve all the guitars we make, structurally and tonally, going forward.

Maybe I'm naïve in thinking that most guitar making companies always want to improve. Maybe if your name is not on the headstock you can more easily think about profit/loss instead of pride and legacy?

Does Larrivée have a vision statement?

ST

Quote from: ST on August 26, 2016, 03:41:25 AM
This particular meme serves the people who own the old ones.

A less cynical view holds that there are better and lesser of everything made in quantity. Those things that survive the ravages of time are probably the better ones.

A musicologist suggested that I consider musical compositions. Of all the music written, only the best  survives, and it survives because it was good, and played, and treasured, and played over and over again.

Her premise was: Old is not necessarily good.  Old that has passed through the filter of time and discerning hands has proven its value.  

Does Larrivée have a vision statement?

ST

Frankly, I can't imagine a builder saying anything else. However, I still feel, as do most guitar owners, that older guitars (maybe only if they've been played a lot) are generally better than newer guitars. Even Larrivees. Newer ones may eventually become better older ones. It's not a matter of build, however, it's a matter of the wood and other materials aging. My oldest Larrivee is better than my newest. I'm not saying that will always be the case. When my OOO is 41 years old ... I'll probably be gone and someone else will have to decide.  :laughin:     

Quote from: Matthew Larrivee on August 25, 2016, 09:46:12 PM
It will for the foreseeable future remain a custom order. OO cutaway is probably the most difficult cutaway we do. The body shape is relatively awkward to begin with - and making the shape of the cutaway work with that body is very difficult. Though we require a deposit to make a guitar like that we don't really charge any more to make that.

Alas, but thanks for replying...   :donut2 :coffee :donut

Matthew, what is the status of John Jr. starting up a custom shop in Canada this year?

Any chance you're holding back some electrics, like a hidden stash? That we'd only have to have our dealers ask for? Wait ........ maybe I don't want you to answer that in a public forum!  :wink:

Seriously, tho', a bit bummed you stopped the electric production. I've been gigging either an RS4, RS2 (and my fav so far) a Bakersfield nearly every weekend for the past 5 yrs. Was hoping to add a Santa Monica. But those are, well, rare, to say the least. Just to confirm ...... you're thinking you're still years away from resuming production on the electrics, again? (that was the only question I could come up with, sorry if it's a repeat)

Hello Matthew,

I am also bummed out concerning the stopping of the electric guitar production.     :crying:   I have been trying to order or find a Santa Monica as well to no avail.

How many Santa Monica's and Malibu's did Larrivee ultimately manufacture?   How many total electrics were produced since 2008.  Where were most of your electrics shipped; North America, Europe, Asia, et cetera.  Sorry for asking to many questions.

What can we do to convince Larrivee to produce an interim limited run of Santa Monica's in the near future???     :smile:
Thank you and Larrivee Guitars for a great run of electrics.  I will be looking forward to when you start up production again.


Mike

Since the thread started, I've been trying to think of a lucid question.  As I'm full up (for now) on acoustics, it's been sort of a struggle.  I have thought of two (limited lucidity, though)...

1).  When they came out, there were rumors that the early O-01 parlors were made from pieces of wood that were too small for the "standard" size guitars.  Any truth to that?  Actually, any history you'd care to share on the development of the parlors would be of interest.  (Obvious parlor fan here).

2).  Considering you've mentioned backing off on electrics, and an aversion to changing scale lengths, this starts out as a pointless question, but...   any chance of a 24" scale electric (for those of us who have been hooked by your parlors)?

Ed

What question haven't we asked yet that you thought for sure we would have?

:bowdown: :beer

Quote from: eded on August 27, 2016, 09:04:24 AM
Since the thread started, I've been trying to think of a lucid question.  As I'm full up (for now) on acoustics, it's been sort of a struggle.  I have thought of two (limited lucidity, though)...

1).  When they came out, there were rumors that the early O-01 parlors were made from pieces of wood that were too small for the "standard" size guitars.  Any truth to that?  Actually, any history you'd care to share on the development of the parlors would be of interest.  (Obvious parlor fan here).

2).  Considering you've mentioned backing off on electrics, and an aversion to changing scale lengths, this starts out as a pointless question, but...   any chance of a 24" scale electric (for those of us who have been hooked by your parlors)?

Ed

Do you play a Fender Mustang or Jaguar Ed?

Quote from: Cybercanyon on August 27, 2016, 08:08:44 AM
Hello Matthew,
 Where were most of your electrics shipped

Mike

Peoria, Arizona and Nova Scotia Canada  :tongue:

Quote from: georbro3 on August 28, 2016, 04:47:06 PM
Do you play a Fender Mustang or Jaguar Ed?

I currently have a Jaguar.  I'm not real fond of the P-90s.  I have a set of P-90 sized humbuckers (and associated pots) to go in when I get to it.  If I could get my hands on one, I'd like to try one of the new Squier Mustangs.

Of course, my fall back electric is my 64 Guild  Starfire III, (24.75" scale).  It never fails.  Lol

Ed

Quote from: ducktrapper on August 26, 2016, 06:35:20 AM
Frankly, I can't imagine a builder saying anything else. However, I still feel, as do most guitar owners, that older guitars (maybe only if they've been played a lot) are generally better than newer guitars. Even Larrivees. Newer ones may eventually become better older ones. It's not a matter of build, however, it's a matter of the wood and other materials aging. My oldest Larrivee is better than my newest. I'm not saying that will always be the case. When my OOO is 41 years old ... I'll probably be gone and someone else will have to decide.  :laughin:     

I don't think the question of older guitars being better than newer versions of the same guitar model can be resolved to any satisfaction.  My 2 early 1980's L model guitars are excellent sounding and playing guitars.  I think they have no equal compared to any currently available guitar.  I have not had the opportunity to try out whatever guitars would be their equivalent model today, however.  My 2008 OM-03 plays and sounds fantastic   I must say that whenever I have played a current model Larrivee L or D model in a music store in the last couple of years, my impression was that they sounded and played like a typical Larrivee.

Quote from: JOYCEfromNS on August 28, 2016, 05:42:01 PM
Peoria, Arizona and Nova Scotia Canada  :tongue:

That sounds about right.    :roll

Always wondered about this. Anytime I sell a used guitar, 90% of the time the buyer is 50+ ( nothing wrong with this, I am too ). What is the average age of a Larrivee buyer, and is this different than the other brands?

Quote from: L07 Shooting Star on August 29, 2016, 01:25:39 AM
I don't think the question of older guitars being better than newer versions of the same guitar model can be resolved to any satisfaction.  My 2 early 1980's L model guitars are excellent sounding and playing guitars.  I think they have no equal compared to any currently available guitar.  I have not had the opportunity to try out whatever guitars would be their equivalent model today, however.  My 2008 OM-03 plays and sounds fantastic   I must say that whenever I have played a current model Larrivee L or D model in a music store in the last couple of years, my impression was that they sounded and played like a typical Larrivee.

Whether the newer guitars will be even better older guitars as they age is now the question. Of course, they can never catch up so it will never be answered, I guess. Anyway, I suppose it's possible but I've never played a Larrivee I didn't like.  Some more than others obviously but I can't say that for too many other brands and for those I can I'd have to admit that I have played only a small number of them. 

I'd have to agree with ducktrapper, my 30 year old L09 sounds better than most newer Larrivees that I have tried. That still doesn't mean that the new Larrivees aren't going to sound as good or better in coming years, just that I won't be around to hear them.

Lots of great question here. I'll be answering a bunch tonight so keep them coming.

Hi Matthew,

Thank you for making yourself available to all of us. I'm curious as to what extra craftsmanship and higher grade materials go into your higher end guitars (all of us here know that there isn't such thing as a low end Larrivee). You spoke to the selection of top wood for different models already. Obviously, scalloped bracing will make a difference. What else goes on in the process for when you have an instrument that is being given even more care to ring out?
I know there's something to it because I've played 03's that I love, yet I have a custom Larrivee that just sings. I posted about it recently (http://www.larriveeforum.com/smf/index.php?topic=50119.0). All of the parts feel like they were handpicked to go together with purpose.
I contacted your brother regarding this guitar when he released the manufacture date database because it was listed as being a rosewood guitar. John said it was quite possibly an internal guitar and there was a note that it was a gift. I was fortunate enough to get ahold of this one. I'd really like to hear what some of the extra steps or material choices go into creating your top instruments.

Also, do you sometimes find an 03 that you expect to pale in comparison to other models with higher graded woods that just wows you and your not sure why it came out that way? Or, can you predict the quality of sound to an extent as it's coming together?

Quote from: georbro3 on August 26, 2016, 02:30:24 PM
Matthew, what is the status of John Jr. starting up a custom shop in Canada this year?

I don't think it will happen this year due to the space not yet being available. It is unknown what this shop will do yet either. It's early in the process.

Quote from: tulk1 on August 26, 2016, 10:19:15 PM
Any chance you're holding back some electrics, like a hidden stash? That we'd only have to have our dealers ask for? Wait ........ maybe I don't want you to answer that in a public forum!  :wink:

Seriously, tho', a bit bummed you stopped the electric production. I've been gigging either an RS4, RS2 (and my fav so far) a Bakersfield nearly every weekend for the past 5 yrs. Was hoping to add a Santa Monica. But those are, well, rare, to say the least. Just to confirm ...... you're thinking you're still years away from resuming production on the electrics, again? (that was the only question I could come up with, sorry if it's a repeat)

There is a rack on our mezzanine with about 25-30 electrics of varying completion. A mix of RS-2 and RS-4, several lefties. Most of them are seconds now. They'll sit there for a another year and then we'll probably finish them. We might sell some off at the next Holiday Factory Sale. None of them have cases though. We probably wont restart RS-4 production for the foreseeable future. However I think we will make some teles next year. Probably 1 larger batch instead of one offs.

Quote from: Cybercanyon on August 27, 2016, 08:08:44 AM
Hello Matthew,

I am also bummed out concerning the stopping of the electric guitar production.     :crying:   I have been trying to order or find a Santa Monica as well to no avail.

How many Santa Monica's and Malibu's did Larrivee ultimately manufacture?   How many total electrics were produced since 2008.  Where were most of your electrics shipped; North America, Europe, Asia, et cetera.  Sorry for asking to many questions.

What can we do to convince Larrivee to produce an interim limited run of Santa Monica's in the near future???     :smile:
Thank you and Larrivee Guitars for a great run of electrics.  I will be looking forward to when you start up production again.


Mike

That's alot of questions and some are not easy to answer from my desk at home. We made roughly an equal number number of teles and rs-4s if I had to guess. Who knows maybe we'll do some santa monicas in the future. The more people that ask the better. If you're looking now you might contact our german distributor Music Wein, they might have 1-2 remaining. Possibly long and mcquade

Quote from: eded on August 27, 2016, 09:04:24 AM
Since the thread started, I've been trying to think of a lucid question.  As I'm full up (for now) on acoustics, it's been sort of a struggle.  I have thought of two (limited lucidity, though)...

1).  When they came out, there were rumors that the early O-01 parlors were made from pieces of wood that were too small for the "standard" size guitars.  Any truth to that?  Actually, any history you'd care to share on the development of the parlors would be of interest.  (Obvious parlor fan here).

2).  Considering you've mentioned backing off on electrics, and an aversion to changing scale lengths, this starts out as a pointless question, but...   any chance of a 24" scale electric (for those of us who have been hooked by your parlors)?

Ed

I'll try to give you as much history on the parlor as I can reasonably remember. I'm at home so I'm guess on specific years, but you'll get the idea. During the late nineties we were seeing great success with -02 and -03 guitars. Guitar center was buying containers full of guitars. We were looking for ways to grow further and we wanted to expand into the "travel guitar" market. The Backpacker and the Baby Taylor were wining in the field. We tried a few different ideas including building a prototype of a guitar we called the "Portage" which was paddle shaped. The name is a nod to the French Canadian term of carrying a boat – it got the name because of the paddle shape. We ultimate decided that we wanted the guitar to be guitar shaped. At the time I was doing the CAD design for the company and my dad asked me to scale down a L-Body guitar to see how it looked. I accidentally scaled the L Body incorrectly. i.e. I scaled it more on the X axis than the Y axis. The resulting error was pleasing to the eye so we went with it – A happy accident as are most innovations in our industry.

The scuttlebutt on the "small sets" of wood is absolutely true. At the time we had almost 30 years of too-small sets of really good wood saved up. We thought it would last decades. It was gone in 2 years. This wood is why the parlor was so much cheaper that a corresponding full size guitar for years. Today the wood savings is only a few dollars so a P-03 is almost as much as an L-03. Often parlors have much higher quality wood that the price dictates. For example JCL recently bought 300 absolutely insane Alpine moon spruce tops that are only big enough for a parlor. They are -10 grade tops but will end up on -40's.

Quote from: Cybercanyon on August 27, 2016, 08:08:44 AM

How many Santa Monica's and Malibu's did Larrivee ultimately manufacture?   How many total electrics were produced since 2008.  Where were most of your electrics shipped; North America, Europe, Asia, et cetera.

USA, Germany, and Canada in that order.

Quote from: baillieul on August 29, 2016, 06:49:54 AM
Always wondered about this. Anytime I sell a used guitar, 90% of the time the buyer is 50+ ( nothing wrong with this, I am too ). What is the average age of a Larrivee buyer, and is this different than the other brands?

This is a really good question. The average age is 40-70 solely based on anecdotal evidence (Number of service emails we get where people state their age). This, too be frank, is why the high end American Guitar industry is tough shape. Baby boomers have always heavily been into guitar and had to means to purchase high quality professional guitars. When boomers grew up in the 50's and 60's there really wasn't "Cheap" Guitars. Generation X grew up with guitar but often don't have capital to invest $1500+ on good guitars – Buying habits of Gen X were severely altered by the 2008 depression. Millennials (AKA Gen Y) are another animal altogether. Millennials grew up in frugal times, and continue to often live very frugally. Also the music of this generation is totally different. As the millennials were growing up the music was not guitar centric, but rather electronic based. They were the first generation that really saw music programs cut from their schools. They are the hardest generation to sell to, and they make up a huge part of the populace now. Only recently have I started to see real instruments return into music, and what is unique about it is that it is truly a blend of modern electronic music and instruments. I have a feeling that we are about to see an upward trend in guitar.

Quote from: jpmist on August 28, 2016, 06:44:11 AM
What question haven't we asked yet that you thought for sure we would have?

:bowdown: :beer

I figured there would be more off-topic questions

Off topic?  How about, what is your favorite color, what kind of car do you drive, and finally what is the air speed velocity of a fully guitar ladened swallow.

I'd be interested in what you would share about the evolution of the Legacy series, things like the prototyping and hitting that "aha moment" when you know you've created something good. My new OM-40M just amazes me with it's qualities. One of the cool aspects I've come to notice while playing it is that the whole guitar, from end to end, just sizzles with vibration. My L has that same quality but this OM is a few points up the Richter Scale.

I'm curious about your methodology behind choosing new types of wood to make acoustics. I have a lot of questions because I find the art of guitar making fascinating and the end product of your hard work really put a smile on my face whenever I pick up any one of my Larrivee's.

As an example, there was a run of Swamp Ash guitars made a few years ago that, in my opinion, when played against a Martin D-28, absolutely blew it away in every way imaginable. When someone gets an idea to try swamp ash for back and sides, what do you do to experiment with the wood to find the right cut, thickness, etc, and how long does it take to go from the idea to the end product? How many "test guitars" are made and what do you do with them?

What have been the wood types you've tried that have given you the biggest challenges? Why?

What woods have you tried but never could get right? Why?

What wood types are you currently experimenting with and what woods not currently being used for acoustic guitar production do you think shows promise?

Again, thank you for your time; it is really appreciated.

Marc

Quote from: Matthew Larrivee on August 30, 2016, 09:58:13 PM
I'll try to give you as much history on the parlor as I can reasonably remember.....

The scuttlebutt on the "small sets" of wood is absolutely true....

Thanks a million.  And, thanks for the error in scaling!  My O-01 is still my favorite guitar, with my PV-03 running a close second.

Ed

I am sooooooo loving this thread!  Thank you again Matthew for taking the time to do this!

So how does the wife like you staying up late at night on the computer hangiing with this bunch of loon's?

Quote from: unclrob on August 31, 2016, 02:30:36 PM
So how does the wife like you staying up late at night on the computer hangiing with this bunch of loon's?

Aside from being a Luthier, I'm also a foster parent. So the better half was out at a meeting with our foster child, and my natural borns were doing home homework. So we're all good!

Quote from: Cybercanyon on August 31, 2016, 12:42:17 AM
Off topic?  How about, what is your favorite color, what kind of car do you drive, and finally what is the air speed velocity of a fully guitar ladened swallow.

Mary Kay, Passat/Ford Ranger, African or European?

Quote from: Matthew Larrivee on August 30, 2016, 10:29:54 PM
This is a really good question. The average age is 40-70 solely based on anecdotal evidence (Number of service emails we get where people state their age). This, too be frank, is why the high end American Guitar industry is tough shape. Baby boomers have always heavily been into guitar and had to means to purchase high quality professional guitars. When boomers grew up in the 50's and 60's there really wasn't "Cheap" Guitars. Generation X grew up with guitar but often don't have capital to invest $1500+ on good guitars – Buying habits of Gen X were severely altered by the 2008 depression. Millennials (AKA Gen Y) are another animal altogether. Millennials grew up in frugal times, and continue to often live very frugally. Also the music of this generation is totally different. As the millennials were growing up the music was not guitar centric, but rather electronic based. They were the first generation that really saw music programs cut from their schools. They are the hardest generation to sell to, and they make up a huge part of the populace now. Only recently have I started to see real instruments return into music, and what is unique about it is that it is truly a blend of modern electronic music and instruments. I have a feeling that we are about to see an upward trend in guitar.

Thanks for the response Matthew. I got another question.

A few years ago I was on a tour of your Oxnard shop, and think I heard that the employees jammed from time to time.

Soooo, is this still going on? If so, who has all the talent there? Also, a quick video would be a cool social media idea.

Quote from: Matthew Larrivee on August 24, 2016, 10:14:14 PM
They both produce distinctive tones. From a builders stand point I prefer the Black Walnut as it works a lot better. It's also a very environmentally friendly wood as the black walnut we use is a byproduct of the laminate industry. It's air dried which is a huge plus and there is a lot of it out there. We originally started working heavily with walnut because of fallout from the Gibson legal mess; Indian Rosewood shipments were halted until the harmonized tariff code mess was sorted out. We needed to search for a rosewood alternative and we've always liked walnut. We started with Peruvian walnut which is not a true walnut because it was available very quickly, but the supplier wasn't able to secure it fast enough so we started working with the Black walnut. We just heard recently that Indian Rosewood may gain CITES protection in the next few months which has the potential to alter the supply. This is part of the reason why we are doing larger runs of different dark woods such as Laurel and Walnut. It creates a win win situation for everyone.

I hate to use the cliche "It's half way between mahogany and rosewood" but Peruvian is much more similar to mahogany, and black walnut is really half way between the two.

What did you mean when you said Peruvian Walnut is not a true Walnut?  When I looked them up they were all listed in the same genus family...

 :cheers  Thank you for making wonderful guitars. They are the perfect tool for my needs. I simply love my Larrivees. I especially like the fact that you avoid laminates, bolt on necks, and refuse to compromise on making a quality product. After I play on stage, I often get people asking me why my guitar sounds so darn good. I always tell them, they need to go buy a Larrivee, but I am sure the K & K pickups I use to amplify a great sounding guitar, play a part as well. My first question is.... have you ever considered installing K & K pickups as a factory option?    My second question is....what is the ratio built between no cut, and cut with preamp installed guitars, built by Larrivee?

How would you compare living in America to living in Canada?

Hi Matthew,

Well this is certainly off topic but as a life long carpenter (and an amateur guitar builder) I was wondering what kind of wood finishes you have in your home (cabinets, flooring, trim etc) and if you do woodworking projects for fun other than guitars.

Thanks, Steve

Ok I'll bite:


1) exactly how many of the O-01 Parlors were made with the narrow 1 11/16" nut?

2) Why didn't you warn me you were going to change the specs to a much friendlier 1 3/4" so I could have waited?

:bgrin:

Quote from: Bard on August 29, 2016, 08:04:14 PM
Hi Matthew,

Thank you for making yourself available to all of us. I'm curious as to what extra craftsmanship and higher grade materials go into your higher end guitars (all of us here know that there isn't such thing as a low end Larrivee).

Believe it or not, having "Extra Craftsmanship" go into higher end guitars is something we purposely do; that may sound counter intuitive but let me explain further. Our staff can't help but put more work and care into more expensive guitars. It's the nature of the beast. The problem is that conversely people can end up putting less effort into the low end guitars. We work really diligently to ensure that we don't have what we call the "02 mentality". The "02 mentality" is a term we came up with years ago where a flaw might pass on a guitar because it was a low end -02. It's very easy to assume that because something is low end, that you can get away with more; and this is not the case with us. So we instruct our employees to treat guitars as equally as possible. If you're neck fitting the guitar, give it the same care whether or not it is an -02 or an -09. See my comment earlier that we just can't build a low end guitar to save our lives :>

Quote from: Bard on August 29, 2016, 08:04:14 PM
You spoke to the selection of top wood for different models already. Obviously, scalloped bracing will make a difference. What else goes on in the process for when you have an instrument that is being given even more care to ring out?

Wood selection and thickness play the biggest factor, not just in the back and sides, but particularly in the bracing and the neck/fretboard.

Quote from: Bard on August 29, 2016, 08:04:14 PM
All of the parts feel like they were handpicked to go together with purpose.

Without sounding arrogant, it's because they are.

Quote from: Bard on August 29, 2016, 08:04:14 PM
Also, do you sometimes find an 03 that you expect to pale in comparison to other models with higher graded woods that just wows you and your not sure why it came out that way? Or, can you predict the quality of sound to an extent as it's coming together?

There are random guitars that appear to be divinely inspired randomly when strung up but in general I would say that we've learned over 50 years to control the tone that we want.

Golly, it almost sounds like these people know what they're doing.

Matthew do you all sometimes think Larrivee Guitars is the next Martin dynasty in the making?

Quote from: ducktrapper on September 02, 2016, 06:36:38 PM
Golly, it almost sounds like these people know what they're doing.

The guitars are the evidence

Quote from: homme de fer on August 31, 2016, 09:42:53 AM

I'm curious about your methodology behind choosing new types of wood to make acoustics. I have a lot of questions because I find the art of guitar making fascinating and the end product of your hard work really put a smile on my face whenever I pick up any one of my Larrivee's.

As an example, there was a run of Swamp Ash guitars made a few years ago that, in my opinion, when played against a Martin D-28, absolutely blew it away in every way imaginable. When someone gets an idea to try swamp ash for back and sides, what do you do to experiment with the wood to find the right cut, thickness, etc, and how long does it take to go from the idea to the end product? How many "test guitars" are made and what do you do with them?

This is a great question. Really when it comes down to it, you can build a guitar out of virtually any wood. Basically if you can find a way to bend the sides, then you can build a guitar out of it. Some woods you wouldn't want to build with because of stability reasons. The swamp ash was a great example. When building telecasters, I was buying this incredibly light weight swamp ash (some pieces less than 2lbs per board foot). We got a few boards that were quarter sawn that I saw acoustic back and sides in (maybe in a strange way how sculptures see an image in a block of stone?). My first stop was googling to see "has this been done?" and really no one had. Then basically I cut up the board and made two guitars. One dreadnought and one OM or Parlor. These two bodies are chosen specifically because this tells us how the wood will bend. The OM waist is very tight and if the wood is going to crack, it's going to happen there. As far as thickness goes over the last 25 or so years we've developed somewhat of a formula for determining back and sides thickness. The sides are always the same thickness regardless of density, but we increase the back thickness as the wood gets softer. From there we build it as normal and my dad and I just check it regularly as it goes through the shop. Particularly at paint we watch how it grain fills. At the end of the line we looks first at if the guitar is stable and not shifting all over the place – Then we listen to it, and ask our employees opinion of it as well. If it sounds good, looks good, and is stable then we say "OK lets build some more"

Quote from: homme de fer on August 31, 2016, 09:42:53 AM

What have been the wood types you've tried that have given you the biggest challenges? Why?

African Ebony because of nonstop cracking.

Quote from: homme de fer on August 31, 2016, 09:42:53 AM

What woods have you tried but never could get right? Why?

Tonally we really haven't had any as we can generally make a good guitar out of anything by pairing it with the right soundboard, structurally there are been several different woods that we cant pull off.

Quote from: homme de fer on August 31, 2016, 09:42:53 AM

What wood types are you currently experimenting with and what woods not currently being used for acoustic guitar production do you think shows promise?

We're currently experimenting with Chechen, Anigre, Malaysian Ebony, Black Limba, Several Walnuts, Sipo, and Yellow Cedar. Sipo shows a lot of promise for guitar necks, Black limba shows huge promise as back and sides, my dad and I are not in agreement yet over yellow cedar.
The recent proposed changes which will list all Dalbergia species on one of the CITES Appendixes threatens the Indian rosewood supply so we are looking to find alternatives for rosewood that are plentiful just in case. Walnut is the natural choice in my mind.

Sitka or Adirondack? Care to weigh in on that controversy Matthew?   

Tonewood questions:

Former Employee Ed Bond seems very fond of Lutz Spruce as a topwood.   Your thoughts on using Lutz?

Breedlove is making some fantastic guitars out of Myrtlewood.  Any plans on using Myrtle in the future?

Any chance of getting any more Englelmann topped guitars like my 1998 OM-03R?  I'd love a OO EIR and Engelmann or Black Walnut and Engelmann sized Larrivee.

Thank you Matthew for all those precious informations !

I would like to know your perspective about the effect of time on your guitars. Do you know how a guitar will age sound wise ? If so, is it related to some specific factors ?

I ask because a seller told me that a laminate back will not age like a solid back would. Afterwards, I thought to myself : does it really have that much of an impact for a back ?

Thanks again ! It is really a good read !

Quote from: Krugie_Mtl on September 03, 2016, 07:59:14 PM
Thank you Matthew for all those precious informations !

I would like to know your perspective about the effect of time on your guitars. Do you know how a guitar will age sound wise ? If so, is it related to some specific factors ?

I ask because a seller told me that a laminate back will not age like a solid back would. Afterwards, I thought to myself : does it really have that much of an impact for a back ?

Thanks again ! It is really a good read !

Larrivee does not use laminates. So it's kind of a moot point. IMHO however, most guitars if they are well built in the first place, get better with age.   

I know that Larrivée doesn't use laminates. But that 'anecdote' was the starting of a bit more reflexion from my part about the concept of aging. I just wanted to know Matthew's experience with that notion as a builder and not as a customer. For example: Do a thinner top tend to age better than a thicker one ? Since they are building new guitars, is aging a part of the equation ? Because sellers use often that argument: 'It will be even better with age'.

Quote from: Krugie_Mtl on September 04, 2016, 08:04:48 AM
Because sellers use often that argument: 'It will be even better with age'.

Not just sellers but builders. I attended a Martin factory show and the rep strummed a chord on a new Martin and asked, "Sound good?" Everyone agreed that yes it sounded great, at which point the rep stated, "That's the worst this guitar will ever sound." It's pretty common knowledge among guitar owners that guitars get better with age and better guitars get betterer.     

Quote from: Krugie_Mtl on September 04, 2016, 08:04:48 AM
I know that Larrivée doesn't use laminates. But that 'anecdote' was the starting of a bit more reflexion...

I'm not going to speak for Matthew (and I'm not sure what the question was) but a laminate top is typically structurally restricted, which is why age is less relevant.  The changes which take place in solid tops, especially thin solid tops, have a more dramatic effect on tone since they are more involved in the tone making process than an unresponsive top.  The subject of aging and tone is often tiptoed around because we as humans don't entirely understand how and why it happens, but enough people have observed the phenomena that it's a generally accepted theory. Gravity is similar in that sense.

Quote from: ducktrapper on September 04, 2016, 08:23:08 AM
Not just sellers but builders. I attended a Martin factory show and the rep strummed a chord on a new Martin and asked, "Sound good?" Everyone agreed that yes it sounded great, at which point the rep stated, "That's the worst this guitar will ever sound." It's pretty common knowledge among guitar owners that guitars get better with age and better guitars get betterer.     

I'm on the fence when it comes to guitars sounding better with age and lots of playing time.  Being the devil's advocate, I would say the Martin rep's statement doesn't have a lot of significance.  First, he/she has an interest in marketing guitars, and second, if the guitar sounds the same but not better 20 years hence, then the statement is still true.  I have been playing my L-07 for 31 years now, and I think it has improved quite a bit.  I can't really remember what it sounded like when I first got it though.  Also, I am so used to it's nuances, that I could play it in my sleep.  I am able to bring the best out of it now, so does it sound better because of aging or just because I am so familiar with it?  Just saying.

Quote from: L07 Shooting Star on September 04, 2016, 09:45:32 PM
I'm on the fence when it comes to guitars sounding better with age and lots of playing time.  Being the devil's advocate, I would say the Martin rep's statement doesn't have a lot of significance.  First, he/she has an interest in marketing guitars, and second, if the guitar sounds the same but not better 20 years hence, then the statement is still true.  I have been playing my L-07 for 31 years now, and I think it has improved quite a bit.  I can't really remember what it sounded like when I first got it though.  Also, I am so used to it's nuances, that I could play it in my sleep.  I am able to bring the best out of it now, so does it sound better because of aging or just because I am so familiar with it?  Just saying.

Many people have played newer models and compared then to used versions of the same guitar and have noticed differences. Newer tend to be tighter, without as balanced or "open" a tone.  Boomier, less articulate bass. Highs that are edgy rather than sparkly.  Not that new guitars are bad, but they just tend to not be as responsive and pleasant as ones that have played in. 

This weekend I was comparing recordings of my SD50 with some I made 2 years ago. Wow.  The thumpy bass and nasal mid-range really mellowed out.  It's so balanced and behaved now.  I'd been noticing these things for a while and thought it was just me growing used to the guitar, until I compared the recordings.

Quote from: B0WIE on September 04, 2016, 11:28:05 PM
Many people have played newer models and compared then to used versions of the same guitar and have noticed differences. Newer tend to be tighter, without as balanced or "open" a tone.  Boomier, less articulate bass. Highs that are edgy rather than sparkly.  Not that new guitars are bad, but they just tend to not be as responsive and pleasant as ones that have played in. 

This weekend I was comparing recordings of my SD50 with some I made 2 years ago. Wow.  The thumpy bass and nasal mid-range really mellowed out.  It's so balanced and behaved now.  I'd been noticing these things for a while and thought it was just me growing used to the guitar, until I compared the recordings.

That's what I would call good empirical evidence.  That's what we need more of in these discussions, no?

I notice quite a difference pre and post tone rite treatment.  A difference to the better.

I believe a ToneRite will open up a top, even if it is not permanent on all guitars, where you can certainly hear the difference.  I have not vibrated one to pieces yet... :winkin:  I am also interested in the aging gained by a torrified top, there seems to be evidence that points to the success of that technology.  I still like the demo where the guy tells the eager audience of the new guitar he is showing off....  This is the worst it will ever sound....  Us old guys can relate to aging gracefully?

Quote from: L07 Shooting Star on September 04, 2016, 09:45:32 PM
I'm on the fence when it comes to guitars sounding better with age and lots of playing time.  Being the devil's advocate, I would say the Martin rep's statement doesn't have a lot of significance.  First, he/she has an interest in marketing guitars, and second, if the guitar sounds the same but not better 20 years hence, then the statement is still true.  I have been playing my L-07 for 31 years now, and I think it has improved quite a bit.  I can't really remember what it sounded like when I first got it though.  Also, I am so used to it's nuances, that I could play it in my sleep.  I am able to bring the best out of it now, so does it sound better because of aging or just because I am so familiar with it?  Just saying.

Assuming the Martin rep was touting the party line, my only intention was to point out that even builders claim that their guitars get better with age. Whether they do or not.

Matthew, what is your opinion on the Tonerite.

Matthew, what does the Larrivee family think about torrefied (baked) tops?  My JCL 40th Anniversary Edition and my 1998 D10 Brazilian "Flying Eagle" have beautiful
spruce tops and sound amazing.  I can't imagine them sounding any better if they were baked.

Hi
Just thank your dad for giving us some great guitars. Some of my happiest moments in my life have been spent with my 2 Larrivees. If he is looking for wood, Darwin in Northern Australia has a lot of African mahogany. It is usually a giant pest tree there and people pay thousands of dollars to have it removed when it gets to 150 feet in height. It ends up as scrap or landfill.

Any more Blackwood around?

Quote from: Riverbend on August 31, 2016, 04:26:56 AM
I'd be interested in what you would share about the evolution of the Legacy series, things like the prototyping and hitting that "aha moment" when you know you've created something good. My new OM-40M just amazes me with it's qualities. One of the cool aspects I've come to notice while playing it is that the whole guitar, from end to end, just sizzles with vibration. My L has that same quality but this OM is a few points up the Richter Scale.

The 40 series history dates waaaay back probably to about 1993 I think. There was always a desire to make a Larrivee that titled more towards the Martin Style guitar without becoming a Martin. The very first 50, 60, and 70 series guitars were the first attempt at this. We worked with the Tony Rice style Large Soundhole. We sold only a few of these (maybe 160?) as they were very high end and had inlay (either an eagle, horse, or tiger) – They didn't really "look" like a martin. Ironically these today are one of the most traded Larrivee's. I see or hear about people trading these all the time – and they've retained their value quite well.

Then in 2004 we started with the revised -50 and -60 series (and a handful of -70 series) that had that large Soundhole and a more traditional martin look (Square headstock, Open back tuners, herringbone, etc). These were much more popular. From the original D, OM, and OMV we expanded and offered several new body shapes we had never offered before including OOO and SD. We also added OO. The 12 models would get slotted headstocks.

Somewhere around 2006 (don't hold me to this) we made the very first -40 series guitars in Canada for Long and Mcquade. They were more -03's than modern -40's. They had flat headstocks without volutes, and a basic open back tuner. They had standard bracing. I want to say we made a few hundreds of these over a few years as special runs for L&M. I mention it because it was the first time we thought about the idea

The modern -40 started as a discussion one morning in my Dad's office around 2009. When I get to work in the morning we often talk before the 8am buzzer about what we want to do that day. Our former programmer Mike Berg had given him a set of plans for a D-18 and they had gotten wet so they were hung up to dry and ended up being left up for months. We started talk about how we should make an -03 version of the -50 series but with a bracing system that was a hybrid between ours and the scalloped Martins. Nothing came of it until the Canadian factory closed in 2012/2013 and the brace making moved here. One day out of the blue my dad and I spoke about it and we got hot to trot and made a prototype right away. I make about 80% of the all braces for our guitars so I came up with a scalloped brace one afternoon with a wide and deep offset parabola arch, and my dad signed off and we made the prototype. As soon as the guitar was strung up we knew we had a winner. Nothing really needed to be changed. Honestly there was more back and forth over the appointments. We didn't want to butcher the 50/60 series by using herringbone. We had the rope purfling from Gurian left over from the A34 and F34 mandolins and we ultimately decided on that. It was almost a radial ivoroid rosette! The bold rope has quickly become a signature purfling for us.

Quote from: baillieul on August 31, 2016, 03:44:35 PM
Thanks for the response Matthew. I got another question.

A few years ago I was on a tour of your Oxnard shop, and think I heard that the employees jammed from time to time.

Soooo, is this still going on? If so, who has all the talent there? Also, a quick video would be a cool social media idea.

A few people jam - One of our painters Xavier and our body builder Brendan play mandolin and guitar at lunch, and a couple people hang out and play instruments that they've build. Several people are in bands. Our Rough Neck fitter Ryan is particularly talented.

I haven't said so, but I hope you realize how much this thread is appreciated Matthew.  I love it.

Ed

Quote from: Matthew Larrivee on September 07, 2016, 10:15:29 PM

The 40 series history dates waaaay back probably to about 1993 I think. There was always a desire to make a Larrivee that titled more towards the Martin Style guitar without becoming a Martin. The very first 50, 60, and 70 series guitars were the first attempt at this. We worked with the Tony Rice style Large Soundhole. We sold only a few of these (maybe 160?) as they were very high end and had inlay (either an eagle, horse, or tiger) – They didn't really "look" like a martin. Ironically these today are one of the most traded Larrivee's. I see or hear about people trading these all the time – and they've retained their value quite well.

Then in 2004 we started with the revised -50 and -60 series (and a handful of -70 series) that had that large Soundhole and a more traditional martin look (Square headstock, Open back tuners, herringbone, etc). These were much more popular. From the original D, OM, and OMV we expanded and offered several new body shapes we had never offered before including OOO and SD. We also added OO. The 12 models would get slotted headstocks.

Somewhere around 2006 (don't hold me to this) we made the very first -40 series guitars in Canada for Long and Mcquade. They were more -03's than modern -40's. They had flat headstocks without volutes, and a basic open back tuner. They had standard bracing. I want to say we made a few hundreds of these over a few years as special runs for L&M. I mention it because it was the first time we thought about the idea

The modern -40 started as a discussion one morning in my Dad's office around 2009. When I get to work in the morning we often talk before the 8am buzzer about what we want to do that day. Our former programmer Mike Berg had given him a set of plans for a D-18 and they had gotten wet so they were hung up to dry and ended up being left up for months. We started talk about how we should make an -03 version of the -50 series but with a bracing system that was a hybrid between ours and the scalloped Martins. Nothing came of it until the Canadian factory closed in 2012/2013 and the brace making moved here. One day out of the blue my dad and I spoke about it and we got hot to trot and made a prototype right away. I make about 80% of the all braces for our guitars so I came up with a scalloped brace one afternoon with a wide and deep offset parabola arch, and my dad signed off and we made the prototype. As soon as the guitar was strung up we knew we had a winner. Nothing really needed to be changed. Honestly there was more back and forth over the appointments. We didn't want to butcher the 50/60 series by using herringbone. We had the rope purfling from Gurian left over from the A34 and F34 mandolins and we ultimately decided on that. It was almost a radial ivoroid rosette! The bold rope has quickly become a signature purfling for us.

As the proud owner of an OM-40, it is very cool to hear the evolution of this product line.  Thank you Matthew!

Thanks for such an insightful response to my Legacy question! Oh yeah, you guys've got a winner with those.
Additionally, as a foster and adoptive parent myself, I can appreciate that addition to your lives. Thanks for creating a little more love in the world!   

Quote from: georbro3 on August 31, 2016, 03:49:12 PM
What did you mean when you said Peruvian Walnut is not a true Walnut?  When I looked them up they were all listed in the same genus family...

I thought I had answered this but I didn't find it in the thread so I'll re-post. It is true that Peruvian is a part of the Juglans family so scientifically it is a true walnut, but when you work with Peruvian it is totally different. Someone once explained to me (though I haven't verified the truth of the statement yet) that the fruit (nuts) are not edible and look totally different. It doesn't smell like other walnut varieties, it has totally different grain structure than other walnuts, it's a different color than other walnuts, and works totally differently that other walnuts.

Quote from: carruth on August 31, 2016, 04:34:49 PM
My first question is.... have you ever considered installing K & K pickups as a factory option?    My second question is....what is the ratio built between no cut, and cut with preamp installed guitars, built by Larrivee?

Yes we have considered it, and in the past have gone as far as getting samples several years ago. It's a good pickup, albeit a little finicky. We have such a great relationship with Lloyd Baggs and Ryan over at baggs that we just don't think about it to much. Baggs has really gone out of their way to help us and we have a lot of loyalty to them. As business people we're very loyal to the "nice" people in our industry.

As for your second question, with cutaways it is about 60-70% with pickups. For non-cutaway models its about 10% maybe?

Quote from: Walkerman on September 01, 2016, 09:40:26 AM

How would you compare living in America to living in Canada?

It's completely different. When my wife and I first moved her 15 years ago we thought it was going to be simple because we were staying on the west coast. In reality we suffered from "Culture Shock" for several years. There are fundamental differences between Americans and Canadians that are not apparent right off the bat – Particularly surrounding Personal Freedom and Faith in their Government and Financial institutions. I've really grown to love both countries, and some areas more than others. I particularly love Seattle, and there is the little stretch of California on the I5 from Yreka to the town of Weed that I just LOVE (Oddly specific I know). As a dual citizen I love both of my countries

Quote from: SMan on September 01, 2016, 10:25:11 AM
Hi Matthew,

Well this is certainly off topic but as a life long carpenter (and an amateur guitar builder) I was wondering what kind of wood finishes you have in your home (cabinets, flooring, trim etc) and if you do woodworking projects for fun other than guitars.

Thanks, Steve

I would say that my home is a mix of styles. I live in an older home in a fantastic family neighborhood. I have a few really nice pieces of furniture include a beautiful flamed rock maple dining room table stained dark brown. I live quite simply and don't need or wont for much. If I had my way though, and a quadrillion dollars, I would live in an old California craftsman home a-la Greene and Greene like the Gamble House (enjoy googling that!)

As for other projects, I just built this: http://www.instructables.com/id/Making-a-3D-end-grain-cutting-board-1/ from walnut and maple

Quote from: AZLiberty on September 01, 2016, 10:09:08 PM
Ok I'll bite:


1) exactly how many of the O-01 Parlors were made with the narrow 1 11/16" nut?

2) Why didn't you warn me you were going to change the specs to a much friendlier 1 3/4" so I could have waited?

:bgrin:

1) Oh boy I dont remember for sure but I want to say it was something really low like 4-5

2) So that you would collect all of them!

Quote from: Strings4Him on September 03, 2016, 05:51:53 AM
Matthew do you all sometimes think Larrivee Guitars is the next Martin dynasty in the making?

I'll start with the caveat that I am answering this only from my own personal perspective. This is a very difficult question for me to answer because it challenges who I am as a person. I don't build guitars because I want to be famous, in fact I'm not sure that I would want to be famous as I'm quite socially awkward and not particularly loquacious in person. It's just not something that I think about. I build guitars because I love the building part. I love the challenge of chasing perfection, of discovery, and of creation.

That being said, there is no denying that we are well positioned for the coming decades. We could potentially be the last major guitar making family in America or Canada. There is no Mr. Fender, no Mr Gibson, Bob Taylor is getting older and his daughters are not involved in the business, I don't believe Chris Martin's child will be involved, Richard Hoover of Santa Cruz has no successor that I'm aware of, Bill Collings has no successor, and so on and so forth.

What will the future of the North American guitar industry look like in 40-60 years? I'm sure most of these brands will still exist, but the magic may be gone from many of them. I have another maybe 30 years in me, maybe a little less. My son is 12 and will be in the business within 10 years. My nephew will probably be a part of it as well.  Assuming nothing bad happens to us then there is at least 60-70 years of family continuity right there.

So to answer your question... maybe? Is it what drives us? Definitely not.

Quote from: Matthew Larrivee on September 09, 2016, 11:45:50 PM
I'll start with the caveat that I am answering this only from my own personal perspective. This is a very difficult question for me to answer because it challenges who I am as a person. I don't build guitars because I want to be famous, in fact I'm not sure that I wouldn't want to be famous as I'm quite socially awkward and not particularly loquacious in person. It's just not something that I think about. I build guitars because I love the building part. I love the challenge of chasing perfection, of discovery, and of creation.

That being said, there is no denying that we are well positioned for the coming decades. We could potentially be the last major guitar making family in America or Canada. There is no Mr. Fender, no Mr Gibson, Bob Taylor is getting older and his daughters are not involved in the business, I don't believe Chris Martin's child will be involved, Richard Hoover of Santa Cruz has no successor that I'm aware of, Bill Collings has no successor, and so on and so forth.

What will the future of the North American guitar industry look like in 40-60 years? I'm sure most of these brands will still exist, but the magic may be gone from many of them. I have another maybe 30 years in me, maybe a little less. My son is 12 and will be in the business within 10 years. My nephew will probably be a part of it as well.  Assuming nothing bad happens to us then there is at least 60-70 years of family continuity right there.

So to answer your question... maybe? Is it what drives us? Definitely not.

Vive Larrivee guitars!  :thumb 

Have you ever considered making a "solid-body" or "semi-hollow" electro/acoustic similar to the SST or T-5? Or even the Crafter SAT? Not sure how big that market is, but I'd be in for one from Larrivee, for sure.

Quote from: Matthew Larrivee on September 09, 2016, 11:02:12 PM
It's completely different. When my wife and I first moved her 15 years ago we thought it was going to be simple because we were staying on the west coast. In reality we suffered from "Culture Shock" for several years. There are fundamental differences between Americans and Canadians that are not apparent right off the bat – Particularly surrounding Personal Freedom and Faith in their Government and Financial institutions. I've really grown to love both countries, and some areas more than others. I particularly love Seattle, and there is the little stretch of California on the I5 from Yreka to the town of Weed that I just LOVE (Oddly specific I know). As a dual citizen I love both of my countries

I would love to hear how you rectify personal freedom with faith in government.  Given the fact that the US Constitution and our Bill of Rights were meant as curbs against any government infringing upon our personal rights and freedom of faith.  These were not based upon "faith in government and financial instructions."  Here, we believe in individual freedom.  Anyhow, we used to.  Now, voters believe in "what can the government (i.e. Taxpayers) give me.

Quote from: Walkerman on September 19, 2016, 10:10:14 PM
I would love to hear how you rectify personal freedom with faith in government.  Given the fact that the US Constitution and our Bill of Rights were meant as curbs against any government infringing upon our personal rights and freedom of faith.  These were not based upon "faith in government and financial instructions."  Here, we believe in individual freedom.  Anyhow, we used to.  Now, voters believe in "what can the government (i.e. Taxpayers) give me.

I gotta say this post just irks me.  I don't see any relevance to the intent of this topic which is supposedly about Mathew responding to questions about the guitars they build.  Sure, the title says "ask me anything", but c'mon, Steve, really?  I don't mean to be disrespectful, but I think your question is out of place here.

I have to agree with that. While, as a Canadian living in the US, I'd also be interested to hear Matthew's take on these, it is against the rules of the forum and a tangent from this thread.  

Hello Matthew !

Another question: We see the love and care you put in following your dad's legacy of crafting beautiful instruments. Wendy Larrivée's own work is beautiful and unique. As time goes by, is there a way to transmit that art to others in the
company ?

On the same note, can you tell us a bit more about inlay crafting on a day-to-day basis ?

Hopefully not too far off topic, but besides guitars do you just for fun make anything else in wood?

Quote from: Matthew Larrivee on September 09, 2016, 11:12:10 PM
I would say that my home is a mix of styles. I live in an older home in a fantastic family neighborhood. I have a few really nice pieces of furniture include a beautiful flamed rock maple dining room table stained dark brown. I live quite simply and don't need or wont for much. If I had my way though, and a quadrillion dollars, I would live in an old California craftsman home a-la Greene and Greene like the Gamble House (enjoy googling that!)

As for other projects, I just built this: http://www.instructables.com/id/Making-a-3D-end-grain-cutting-board-1/ from walnut and maple

Thanks for your reply and the google reference to the Gamble House Matthew! A beautiful home.  I love the craftsman style as well and have visited Frank Lloyd Wright"s Taliesin West in Scottsdale.

Quote from: Walkerman on September 19, 2016, 10:10:14 PM
I would love to hear how you rectify personal freedom with faith in government.  Given the fact that the US Constitution and our Bill of Rights were meant as curbs against any government infringing upon our personal rights and freedom of faith.  These were not based upon "faith in government and financial instructions."  Here, we believe in individual freedom.  Anyhow, we used to.  Now, voters believe in "what can the government (i.e. Taxpayers) give me.

Sorry if I was unclear. I didn't mean faith as in religion, I meant faith as in confidence. As in Canadians hold a different view of the competency of their government.

Quote from: ducktrapper on September 03, 2016, 10:23:05 AM
Sitka or Adirondack? Care to weigh in on that controversy Matthew?   

They're different animals and not totally fair to compare. Kind of like rosewood v mahogany – Their different. The problem I have with Adirondack is that the good stuff is mostly gone. Sure there are nice pieces still out there still at an insane premium. The last time I bought an adi top I paid 14x the cost of Sitka and I wouldn't say the guitar was any better or worse. What I will say about adi is that it is so over harvested and as such we're seeing wider grained soundboards. Both JCL and I prefer the slightly wider grained tops tonally. The wide grained spruce tops fit really well on the -40's -50's and -60's.
If given a choice between great adi and sitka I would be hard pressed to choose, average adi and sitka I would choose sitka. Between Moonwood and any adi moonwood wins hands down.

Quote from: AZLiberty on September 03, 2016, 04:35:01 PM
Tonewood questions:

Former Employee Ed Bond seems very fond of Lutz Spruce as a topwood.   Your thoughts on using Lutz?

Breedlove is making some fantastic guitars out of Myrtlewood.  Any plans on using Myrtle in the future?

Any chance of getting any more Englelmann topped guitars like my 1998 OM-03R?  I'd love a OO EIR and Engelmann or Black Walnut and Engelmann sized Larrivee.

Lutz is a fine option, just not one we use. Not for any particular reason, we just are happy with what we offer.

Nothing wrong with myrtle, just havent found the right lumber yet. If we found the right lumber then yes absolutely.

Right now i'd say no on the englemann. However if you bought your own englemann top and sent it to us, we would build with your soundboard - however you would have to accept all the risk in case the piece gets damaged during build. We have two builds right now were people are using their own wood.

80's Larrivee electrics:

What do you think of them? How would you compare them to what you did in the modern era?

Also the  sequential chronological serial number list that used to be on a uk website ( http://www.larrivee-electrics.co.uk/index.htm ) do you have this list or something as detailed and if so can we somehow get it posted to this forum. There are a couple members who have it but never sent it to me  :?

I attached a partial list of the Larrivee 80's electric guitars.  I have other partial lists that I am working on.  I am also rebuilding the larrivee-electrics website that I had up over a year ago.  Things have been complicated for me due to illness and forced retirement.  I also have recently moved to Peoria, Arizona and am still sorting through boxes of guitars, computer stuff and other assorted items.  Sorry Andrew for the delay.

Mike

This might be a touchy topic, but I was curious about "B" guitars - those that made it thru the manufacturing process but for some cosmetic glitch or other can't be sent off to dealers.  :blush:  :whistling:

What happens to those? Is there an informal outlet for those that won't offend your brick and mortar dealers?

And thanks for taking the time for our questions!   :beer

Matthew,

I am repeating some questions I asked early in this thread but were missed:

Matthew,

Thanks for this thread.

I have two questions.

1)  Does Larrivee use a PLEK machine/process and, if so, how is that working out?

2)  If Larrivee does not use a PLEK machine/process, why?

My 80's Larrivee electric, a tele-like thing, is a wonderful little guitar. I love the "hideous"* little beast.

* hideous is the term used by Matthew to describe it.   

Hello,

What is the current daily/monthly/annual  output of guitars at Larrivee? I seem to recall being told it was 22 per day back in early 2015 when I visited the shop. Perhaps my memory fails me.

Thank you! 

Here's a question: one common critique I hear on other forums of Larrivees is that they tend to be "tight" or "overbuilt".  How would you respond to that?  Some makes, like Martin, have different levels of trim and offer lighter bracing patterns as you move up the price scale.  Has Larrivee ever considered something along these lines?  My understanding is that the higher series are differentiated by cosmetics and wood grades, but not construction.

Happy OM-40R owner here and don't mean to be provocative.  Just curious.

Quote from: Presc on October 06, 2016, 09:08:41 AM
Here's a question: one common critique I hear on other forums of Larrivees is that they tend to be "tight" or "overbuilt". 

I'm not Matthew but anyone who says that is a partisan who won't give another guitar other than the one he likes the time of day. It's utter nonsense. Your OM-40R isn't lying to you. Enjoy the **** out of it!   :beer

Quote from: Presc on October 06, 2016, 09:08:41 AM
Here's a question: one common critique I hear on other forums of Larrivees is that they tend to be "tight" or "overbuilt".  How would you respond to that?  Some makes, like Martin, have different levels of trim and offer lighter bracing patterns as you move up the price scale.  Has Larrivee ever considered something along these lines?  My understanding is that the higher series are differentiated by cosmetics and wood grades, but not construction.

Happy OM-40R owner here and don't mean to be provocative.  Just curious.

I have heard this in the past and would also like Matthew's response to set the record straight :)

I like it tight...I like it overbuilt........they last longer and sound great....maybe thats why I like them they remind me of my Guilds and I've got couple of over 40 years old and still gigging on them.

Overbuilt, Underbuilt.  That's so utterly subjective.  And who is the expert that determines the criteria to define such a classification?  Some guy on one or more guitar forums?  In the big picture, what does it matter anyways?  Are you going to accept or reject a Larrivee guitar that you've tried out based on whether or not some "expert" has classified it as over or under built?  Wouldn't you just play it and just decide whether you liked it or not?

All that said, it seems Matt has taken on more than he can keep up with in terms of keeping current and providing responses to this topic.

Quote from: L07 Shooting Star on October 07, 2016, 01:45:57 AM
Overbuilt, Underbuilt.  That's so utterly subjective.  And who is the expert that determines the criteria to define such a classification?  Some guy on one or more guitar forums?  In the big picture, what does it matter anyways?  Are you going to accept or reject a Larrivee guitar that you've tried out based on whether or not some "expert" has classified it as over or under built?  Wouldn't you just play it and just decide whether you liked it or not?

All that said, it seems Matt has taken on more than he can keep up with in terms of keeping current and providing responses to this topic.

I guess underbuilt would be easy to prove, the guitar flies apart when you tune it up? Overbuilt?

(http://thehub.musiciansfriend.com/images/les-paul/lespaullog4.jpg)

Quote from: Presc on October 06, 2016, 09:08:41 AM
Here's a question: one common critique I hear on other forums of Larrivees is that they tend to be "tight" or "overbuilt".  How would you respond to that?  Some makes, like Martin, have different levels of trim and offer lighter bracing patterns as you move up the price scale.  Has Larrivee ever considered something along these lines?  My understanding is that the higher series are differentiated by cosmetics and wood grades, but not construction.

Happy OM-40R owner here and don't mean to be provocative.  Just curious.

Matthew provided this response below to a similar question back in 2011 in this thread.  http://www.larriveeforum.com/smf/index.php?topic=36143.0  It's also interesting to note that even the standard design has evolved over the years.  So they can and do change the bracing.  I hope that Matthew is able to provide a response on this again since it was 5 years ago and it would be interesting to hear his thoughts now.

"To be a little frank, I have to get say I get a little annoyed by the "larrivee's are overbraced" comments – and here's why:

Every guitar maker faces a dilemma in the design of bracing – Strength, or Tone. One of the key ways that the tone of an acoustic guitar can be "altered" (Notice that I didn't say improved) is by thinning out the woods (back/sides/top/braces), but this comes at a price. Reducing the thickness of wood increases the instruments susceptibility to structural changes due to string tension, impact damage, and worst of all climatic damage. Often times the differences in tones between two different manufacturers comes down to which way they have leaned in the strength-tone dilemma.

I don't believe our guitars to be over or under built – I find them to be a perfect balance of tone and strength. This was my father's intention, and an important lesson that both my brother and I have carefully learned.

I've been reading these online discussions as far back as RMMGA – and as I recall the "over-braced" comment came from someone who was selling brace shaving services (not just on Larrivee Guitars). Then as the internet goes someone read it and repeated it, then someone else repeated it, and so forth. The seller, in my opinion, was an uneducated "luthier" who looked at our bracing and saw that it didn't look like a martin and thus thought it was overbraced – not thinking that parabolic bracing was an intentional design. Often times these types of claims are made by people who have not even built a guitar, or maybe built one or two (and somehow they know better than someone who has built over 100,000 instruments).

Altering the bracing on a Larrivee simply makes the guitar sound less like a Larrivee and less like Jean intended. The JCL guitar that we made in 2007 did not have "thinner" bracing – It was simply an exact replica of the bracing we did in the 1970's. In fact several of the braces are THICKER on the JCL. The bridge plate (directly under the bridge) is thicker and larger than other guitars from the 2007 era. The X-brace is rounder around the sound hole, but that doesn't necessarily make it better – it was replicated because that is the way the original was done – it's just different. More likely, the tone difference noted on the JCL's is a result of the soundboards from Jean's stash – They were master grade soundboards for a reason.
Matt."

Quote from: mlejeune67 on October 07, 2016, 08:00:56 AM
Matthew provided this response below to a similar question back in 2011 in this thread.  http://www.larriveeforum.com/smf/index.php?topic=36143.0  It's also interesting to note that even the standard design has evolved over the years.  So they can and do change the bracing.  I hope that Matthew is able to provide a response on this again since it was 5 years ago and it would be interesting to hear his thoughts now.

"To be a little frank, I have to get say I get a little annoyed by the "larrivee's are overbraced" comments – and here's why:

Every guitar maker faces a dilemma in the design of bracing – Strength, or Tone. One of the key ways that the tone of an acoustic guitar can be "altered" (Notice that I didn't say improved) is by thinning out the woods (back/sides/top/braces), but this comes at a price. Reducing the thickness of wood increases the instruments susceptibility to structural changes due to string tension, impact damage, and worst of all climatic damage. Often times the differences in tones between two different manufacturers comes down to which way they have leaned in the strength-tone dilemma.

I don't believe our guitars to be over or under built – I find them to be a perfect balance of tone and strength. This was my father's intention, and an important lesson that both my brother and I have carefully learned.

I've been reading these online discussions as far back as RMMGA – and as I recall the "over-braced" comment came from someone who was selling brace shaving services (not just on Larrivee Guitars). Then as the internet goes someone read it and repeated it, then someone else repeated it, and so forth. The seller, in my opinion, was an uneducated "luthier" who looked at our bracing and saw that it didn't look like a martin and thus thought it was overbraced – not thinking that parabolic bracing was an intentional design. Often times these types of claims are made by people who have not even built a guitar, or maybe built one or two (and somehow they know better than someone who has built over 100,000 instruments).

Altering the bracing on a Larrivee simply makes the guitar sound less like a Larrivee and less like Jean intended. The JCL guitar that we made in 2007 did not have "thinner" bracing – It was simply an exact replica of the bracing we did in the 1970's. In fact several of the braces are THICKER on the JCL. The bridge plate (directly under the bridge) is thicker and larger than other guitars from the 2007 era. The X-brace is rounder around the sound hole, but that doesn't necessarily make it better – it was replicated because that is the way the original was done – it's just different. More likely, the tone difference noted on the JCL's is a result of the soundboards from Jean's stash – They were master grade soundboards for a reason.
Matt."

Nice!  And, I bet his answer (if he cares to add anything) doesn't chance much, if anything. 

My take (and, worth every penny)?  Every builder builds the way they do, and has the sound they have.  If you don't like a given builders products, there are a ton of other builders out there. 

Ed

Why are some labels oval and some rectangular? It doesn't appear to be about whether custom or date of build as far as I can tell. Just curious, Thanks.

Quote from: Matthew Larrivee on August 24, 2016, 10:00:47 PMIn turn we delivered the -01 series to these markets. The only way it was possible was to leverage the weakness of the Canadian dollar. They were generally very similar to the -03 series, but without binding.

Is the process of "binding" harder or easier? Are there savings for you as luthiers to build without binding?

I'm a new Larrivee owner and new to this site . I bought serial #250034. It's quite ornate - abalone everywhere. I bought after looking for a recording - gigging guitar with a sound of ragtime (or something like that). This 1977 "series 25" isn't exactly ragtime but lots of character. A normal-good low end, very burly midrange, and a very shimmery top. It wasn't that it fit some preconception of mine, but just that it stands out and gives a lot of opportunity for unique arrangements playing into its characteristics. It sounds like a much earlier era. It perhaps isn't as versatile as your current offerings, but rather a guitar with a very particular voice.
My question is: Were the early presentation guitars getting woods that aren't available otherwise? I haven't had access to other 40 or 30 year old larrivees to compare. Is it the woods, age, or something about the "series 25's" design that creates that sound?
I ask because I wouldn't have chosen such a ornate guitar as a working guitar, but I really didn't think I'd come across such a sound again. Maybe that is the sound of all the "series 25s", inlayed and not?
If so, I'll wait, and not gig it, and try out some other early larrivees with less bling and perhaps trade with someone who would prefer both the beauty and sound I bought. I'm certainly capable of just treating as I would any other quality tool, but I've got at least initial reservations about it.

It's a bit thrilling to be reading these questions and getting information from you. That's above and beyond what anyone would expect.
Thanks

Tell us about "one piece" backs.  :wink:

Were the RS2 solid bodies made of a single piece of mahogany?

what is the difference (if any) in your 3rd Gen pick=ups in the RS4 and the pick-ups in the Malibu?
Thanks.

Quote from: georbro3 on October 20, 2016, 09:20:46 AM
Were the RS2 solid bodies made of a single piece of mahogany?

Mine was ... but I don't know if they all were.


This one...

Quote from: Mikeymac on November 03, 2016, 12:52:34 AM
Mine was ... but I don't know if they all were.


This one...

Both of mine appear to be and I seem to remember that being part of the description on the old website...

Mathew I'll be honest, I haven't completely gotten over Larrivee leaving Canada. In my snit I sold a couple of older Larrivee's and my new P01 ISS but I couldn't sell my "Hunt For Spruce" I love that guitar and the narrative that it comes with. When you announced the closing of the Canadian operation, the company did say that they were keeping the wood sourcing and sawing under the management of John Jr. in Canada.  There was an earlier question about this but I didn't see a response. Do you still have the wood business in BC?

Your Dad is a Canadian treasure and its good that his legacy should live on through his sons and grand children. I hope his Canadian roots will be reflected in Larrivee guitars for the decades to come.

I'll add some update to this thread shortly

Quote from: Gary787 on November 06, 2016, 07:27:05 AM
Mathew I'll be honest, I haven't completely gotten over Larrivee leaving Canada. In my snit I sold a couple of older Larrivee's and my new P01 ISS but I couldn't sell my "Hunt For Spruce" I love that guitar and the narrative that it comes with. When you announced the closing of the Canadian operation, the company did say that they were keeping the wood sourcing and sawing under the management of John Jr. in Canada.  There was an earlier question about this but I didn't see a response. Do you still have the wood business in BC?

Your Dad is a Canadian treasure and its good that his legacy should live on through his sons and grand children. I hope his Canadian roots will be reflected in Larrivee guitars for the decades to come.

Edgar Munch SR, JCL's mentor, moved to Canada from Germany to build guitars here for what I assume was a good reason.  I wonder how many potential German guitar buyers boycotted his guitars because he moved to a different country.  Had he not made this move to a different country, would there even be such a thing as Larrivee guitars today?

I was just disappointed. I still have my L03R and I won't part with it until I part with everything else I own. I wish the family great success. JCL is a National Treasure in Canada I hope Mathews son is the same in the USA 60 years from now. Who knows maybe JJR kids refire the Canadian Larrivee business.

Hello Mathew
Can I get a custom neck profile and fretboard radius?

Quote from: Gary787 on November 07, 2016, 06:18:04 PM
I was just disappointed. I still have my L03R and I won't part with it until I part with everything else I own. I wish the family great success. JCL is a National Treasure in Canada I hope Mathews son is the same in the USA 60 years from now. Who knows maybe JJR kids refire the Canadian Larrivee business.

Many of us Canadians have moved south. The water's nice so we dove in.  :cheers

Mr. Larrivee,

Would you consider weighing in on the post I have regarding my guitar? I think it's settled, but I'd still really like to get your take on it. Who knows, maybe it isn't settled.

Here's a link, pics are on link to photobucket: http://www.larriveeforum.com/smf/index.php?topic=50548.0

Thanks!

Quote from: Matthew Larrivee on November 06, 2016, 09:06:46 PM
I'll add some update to this thread shortly

Matthew, we are all just dying to know what the 50th Anniversary guitars will be like?  I recently heard through the grapevine that the 50th would not be a specific edition model, but instead an upgrade with special inlay/features available on several different models.  We are hopeful that you will elaborate the details to us really soon.  Just gonna have to get one...

Quote from: georbro3 on December 02, 2016, 02:01:59 PM
Matthew, we are all just dying to know what the 50th Anniversary guitars will be like?  I recently heard through the grapevine that the 50th would not be a specific edition model, but instead an upgrade with special inlay/features available on several different models.  We are hopeful that you will elaborate the details to us really soon.  Just gonna have to get one...

Also, other details regarding the 50th - will they be available through all Larrivee dealers or just some?

What will be the cut off date for ordering one (Dec. of 2017)?

Inquiring, gassing minds want to know!

:arrow :drool: :wacko: :?

he's playing "hard to get"  :bowdown: :wave