Are Larrivee guitars better built than most...?

[jeremy3220]

It could also depend on the condition the guitar was in when it arrived at the store. If it was dry when they unpacked it 40% RH is probably not enough to rehumidify it.

Wood will freely absorb moisture from the atmosphere until it reaches equilibrium. Even then it is in a state of dynamic equilibrium where water molecules are continually absorbed and released.

[LarriDave]

Could be the Martin was subjected to low humidity for a longer period of time than the Larrivee.
The battle is one of entropy. It's a delicate balance for luthiers to build light enough to be musically responsive and heavy enough so as not to implode under the string tension and the elements.

No, I believe both guitars have been exactly at the same place and subject to same humidity for weeks.

Regarding entropy... I'm not sure what you mean. (don't get me wrong I know what entropy is, but not sure what you mean
here).

[LarriDave]

Larrivees are built sturdier than Martins.  I've played both.

In general the Martins are louder and IMO more responsive.  Maybe it's the scalloped bracing or bracing pattern but they do have a lightness that translates into volume and responsiveness.  That Martin lightness also translates into the delicate nature noted above, (humidity issues, neck resets)  which is inherent with a light build.  

Larrivees in contrast are built a little heavier.  As excellent a build as Martin and they produce a tone which I like.  In time they do get more responsive and louder but still less than a lighter build.  The advantages of a stouter build keeps warranty issues to a minimum and enables the manufacturer to sell for less.

My opinion based on my experience.

Interesting thoughts, thanks for sharing. I know that some guitars are built lighter because they use stiffer woods which can be made into thinner layers, and therefore weight less. I'm not sure about the difference in thickness and stiffness between a spruce LArrivee and a spruce Martin top, but that could be one explanation. Now, I don't know if a thinner (and supposedly stiffer) spruce top would shrink more easily at low humidity levels... Anyone?

[Danny]

I weighed my Martin OM21 & my Larrivee Forum III once. They were almost identical in weight.

[LarriDave]

From the source:

Great comments from Matthew Larrivee. Thanks for sharing!

[LarriDave]

Sorry if my original post was misunderstood by some. I didn't mean to start a war of brands, nor was I trying to imply that Larrivees are better sounding than Martins (although I do think they are...). My question was really about the fact that the spruce top on the D-28 was very shrunk and recessed from the low humidity, whereas the Larry was not recessed at all. Again, I am 99% certain the guitar had been stored in the exact same conditions for several weeks.

To answer one poster, I played this exact same D-28 a month ago and didn't notice any issue with the top. I also played the D-05 over the past weeks without noticing any issue either. Another Larri had also been there for several weeks, and had no issue either. Someone said my sample is too small, TRUE! But I'm cannot make any meaningful stats or science on this due to the limited amount of D-28 in this store (in fact just one), not would I want to. It was just an observation, and I was wondering if it was because of the way the D-28 (not necessarily all Martins!) is built, or if this particular guitar was a lemon... One probably shouldn't expect to have too much variation between guitars of the same model (especially high end ones), because I would expect the quality and type of wood to have been carefully chosen so that there should be little variance between each guitar of the same model ,... but I could be wrong.

[Danny]

Sorry if my original post was misunderstood by some. I didn't mean to start a war of brands, nor was I trying to imply that Larrivees are better sounding than Martins (although I do think they are...). My question was really about the fact that the spruce top on the D-28 was very shrunk and recessed from the low humidity, whereas the Larry was not recessed at all. Again, I am 99% certain the guitar had been stored in the exact same conditions for several weeks.

To answer one poster, I played this exact same D-28 a month ago and didn't notice any issue with the top. I also played the D-05 over the past weeks without noticing any issue either. Another Larri had also been there for several weeks, and had no issue either. Someone said my sample is too small, TRUE! But I'm cannot make any meaningful stats or science on this due to the limited amount of D-28 in this store (in fact just one), not would I want to. It was just an observation, and I was wondering if it was because of the way the D-28 (not necessarily all Martins!) is built, or if this particular guitar was a lemon... One probably shouldn't expect to have too much variation between guitars of the same model (especially high end ones), because I would expect the quality and type of wood to have been carefully chosen so that there should be little variance between each guitar of the same model ,... but I could be wrong.

Thanks for the thread and your comments. It's exactly what a forum is all about. And around here if we disagree most of the time we just agree to.                                                      

[jeremy3220]

I weighed my Martin OM21 & my Larrivee Forum III once. They were almost identical in weight.

That surprises me. My dreadnought weighs less than my Larrivee OM.

Now, I don't know if a thinner (and supposedly stiffer) spruce top would shrink more easily at low humidity levels... Anyone?

It might be more prone to issues like cracking but it should shrink the same, all things equal. You got all kinds of cross bracing going on too and that's going to affect things.

Someone said my sample is too small, TRUE! But I'm cannot make any meaningful stats or science on this due to the limited amount of D-28 in this store (in fact just one), not would I want to. It was just an observation, and I was wondering if it was because of the way the D-28 (not necessarily all Martins!) is built, or if this particular guitar was a lemon...

I think Martin's quality is roughly that of Larrivee's. Martins aren't known for having humidity issues. Even Larrivee's have problems sometimes. Sharp fret ends were a common issue(albeit a small one) and there were even a few people here who had back seam separations. We don't know the humidity level of the store you were talking about or just how bad the top was. Maybe it was dropped and had a cracked brace. Maybe it was a lemon. Who knows.

[Denis]

They're well built and built to last.  It's all you need to know when buying a guitar.  And as an added bonus, for me, they're Canadian.  Not everyone's cup of tea but yes, very well built with beautiful materials.  My 00 makes me happy every time I pick it up.  It has its own little mojo that never disappoints.  Familiar, comfortable..I've owned a few Larrivees like that in the last few years.  

There are a lot of good companies making a lot of good guitars out these days.  Better than most?  

What's a Traugott go for these days?  $30k?  35?  With a 3-4 year waiting list?

[JOYCEfromNS]

  Thanks for the thread and your comments. It's exactly what a forum is all about. And around here if we disagree most of the time we just agree to.                                                      

[jeremy3220]

I don't believe our guitars to be over or under built

Every builder would say this. 'Over built' (as a quality) is entirely subjective. Larrivee's are heavier built than some. The player can decide which is over built, under built or built just right... until the three bears come home.

[eded]

Yep...  what she said.

Ed

[AZLiberty]

Now, to my question: what do you guys make of that? Does it mean that Larrys are more robust, better manufactured, have better
woods, or simply better designed...

I'd say no.

I'm reasonably careful about humidity control, but I have had two Larrivee's crack their tops (my Parlor and my D-03R-12).  I have not had any such issues with my Tacomas, Guilds, or Martins.  (The Breedlove is too new to evaluate)

[Danny]

Yep...  what she said.

Ed

Um, actually what HE said.

I'd say no.

I'm reasonably careful about humidity control, but I have had two Larrivee's crack their tops (my Parlor and my D-03R-12).  I have not had any such issues with my Tacomas, Guilds, or Martins.  (The Breedlove is too new to evaluate)

I was thinking about that as well. I've seen more cracks as a lack of humidity than sunken tops (actually zero on that end) for Larrivees. Not saying you don't watch it close though. But the ones I've seen were dried out, for sure.

[Danny]

That surprises me. My dreadnought weighs less than my Larrivee OM.

Do you mean the Dred you built?  Also my F-III has an Italian Spruce top and your OM is mahogany. I don't know if that makes a difference. Also mine is a 12 fret neck and I think yours is a 14. That may add some weight. But honestly I'm just thinking out loud.

[AZLiberty]

I've seen more cracks as a lack of humidity than sunken tops (actually zero on that end) for Larrivees. Not saying you don't watch it close though. But the ones I've seen were dried out, for sure.

The parlor cracked when I left it out on a stand for 24 hrs. My fault should have known better.  It actually cracked a 2nd time when I waited slightly too long to refill the in case humidifier. It's a first run parlor with a gig bag, and the gig bags don't hold humidity in as well as hard cases.

Living where "humid" means over 5% is fun.

My next guitar is going to be carbon fiber.  I know I'd play more if I could leave one out instead of keeping them all locked away in their cases.

[jeremy3220]

            Do you mean the Dred you built?  Also my F-III has an Italian Spruce top and your OM is mahogany. I don't know if that makes a difference. Also mine is a 12 fret neck and I think yours is a 14. That may add some weight. But honestly I'm just thinking out loud.

Yeah the one I built. My OM/PW is even lighter.

[Mr_LV19E]

Sorry if my original post was misunderstood by some. I didn't mean to start a war of brands, nor was I trying to imply that Larrivees are better sounding than Martins (although I do think they are...). My question was really about the fact that the spruce top on the D-28 was very shrunk and recessed from the low humidity, whereas the Larry was not recessed at all. Again, I am 99% certain the guitar had been stored in the exact same conditions for several weeks.

Maybe the D-28 left the store for some reason. IE loaned out, owner took it home for the weekend to play, prospective buyer took it home to try it out, lots of reasons for a guitar to leave a store and then come back. If you were to take most guitars out of their humidified environment to a forced air heated home in the middle of winter where the humidity level could be 5 to 10% for a 2 to 3 day period you could very well experience a sunken top. In my experience it takes longer for the guitar to absorb moisture than it does to lose it.
Take a look at the Taylor website where Bob re hydrates a dry guitar with a cracked top using multiple Dampit's.
Here are the links.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS6GqjP-zMY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNpYtcYTRCc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmRdEoV6_wk&feature=related

[broKen]

Getting back to the original post, there has to be an explanation. In a controlled climate room there must be some air circulation taking place. Perhaps the air source is blowing directly on the martin causing the more severe condition. Just hypothesizing. Or, the top of the Martin had a bit more moisture in it when it was put together. I doubt that martin would be using inferior wood, but there may have been a mix up during construction.
I wouldn't trade my Larrivees for any of the Martins I have played, which have been very few. I think quality is very important to the Larrivee enterprise, whereas Martin does do some low end stuff.

[Strings4Him]

Getting back to the original post, there has to be an explanation. In a controlled climate room there must be some air circulation taking place. Perhaps the air source is blowing directly on the martin causing the more severe condition. Just hypothesizing. Or, the top of the Martin had a bit more moisture in it when it was put together. I doubt that martin would be using inferior wood, but there may have been a mix up during construction.
I wouldn't trade my Larrivees for any of the Martins I have played, which have been very few. I think quality is very important to the Larrivee enterprise, whereas Martin does do some low end stuff.

Agreed.  I think Martin's breadth of offerings might make one believe Martin guitars are not as high on quality.  But comparing like models with similar appointments they are pretty much the same.  Martin has been in business since 1833.  A company won't last that long without offering quality products.