I watched this Martin Scorcese film again over the last two nights and was again struck with the brilliance of this documentary. While no one who was not present when this all happened can truly understand the significance of Bob Dylan, this will get them as close as humanly possible.
I was amused how the old folkies come across as a little bitter that Dylan stole their thunder then without fanfare left them high and dry. His abandonment of folk music and especially politically motivated folk music effectively marginalized if not terminated many a career, so I guess I can understand the sentiment. What I can't understand is why, so many years later, Pete Seeger found it necessary to try to rewrite history. I don't know why he couldn't just admit that Dylan pi$$ed him off by playing electric guitar with The Butterfield Blues band at Newport. Of course, he freaked and threatened to axe the power. His story that the sound was bad and that that was his only concern is quite evidently nonsense. As he says this, we can watch and listen to Dylan's performance and while sure the sound was probably cleaned up for the movie, there is no indication that Dylan's words were indecipherable, unintelligible or inaudible. Maggie's Farm, the song that Dylan started with, is an obvious kiss off to those who wanted to keep Dylan on the reservation, singing while he slaved. He was loudly proclaiming that while he was for freedom and all, he was not on their side either. Of course Seeger and a lot of others were angry. Why not fess up? What difference did it make 40 years later? After all, watching the documentary and the reception Dylan received in England on the ensuing tour, he certainly wouldn't have been the only one to openly hate the new Dylan. At least, the still beautiful Joan Baez is honest about it.
I also came away re-amazed (is that a word) at the brilliance of Mr. Tambourine Man, Ballad of a Thin Man and Like A Rolling Stone.
I'm still wading through the Complete Basement Tapes (what a project) that I recently bought and can't wait for the album of Sinatra covers due in February. Keep 'em coming Mr. D!
Quote from: ducktrapper on December 13, 2014, 11:12:18 AM
I watched this Martin Scorcese film again over the last two nights and was again struck with the brilliance of this documentary. While no one who was not present when this all happened can truly understand the significance of Bob Dylan, this will get them as close as humanly possible.
I was amused how the old folkies come across as a little bitter that Dylan stole their thunder then without fanfare left them high and dry. His abandonment of folk music and especially politically motivated folk music effectively marginalized if not terminated many a career, so I guess I can understand the sentiment. What I can't understand is why, so many years later, Pete Seeger found it necessary to try to rewrite history. I don't know why he couldn't just admit that Dylan pi$$ed him off by playing electric guitar with The Butterfield Blues band at Newport. Of course, he freaked and threatened to axe the power. His story that the sound was bad and that that was his only concern is quite evidently nonsense. As he says this, we can watch and listen to Dylan's performance and while sure the sound was probably cleaned up for the movie, there is no indication that Dylan's words were indecipherable, unintelligible or inaudible. Maggie's Farm, the song that Dylan started with, is an obvious kiss off to those who wanted to keep Dylan on the reservation, singing while he slaved. He was loudly proclaiming that while he was for freedom and all, he was not on their side either. Of course Seeger and a lot of others were angry. Why not fess up? What difference did it make 40 years later? After all, watching the documentary and the reception Dylan received in England on the ensuing tour, he certainly wouldn't have been the only one to openly hate the new Dylan. At least, the still beautiful Joan Baez is honest about it.
I also came away re-amazed (is that a word) at the brilliance of Mr. Tambourine Man, Ballad of a Thin Man and Like A Rolling Stone.
I'm still wading through the Complete Basement Tapes (what a project) that I recently bought and can't wait for the album of Sinatra covers due in February. Keep 'em coming Mr. D!
Whew, lots to absorb there. Being a Dylan fan and follower and very interested, I will have to look at that production again before I comment further.
I was only ten when Blowing in the Wind became a hit for PP&M and while I was aware of the name Bob Dylan, I never paid much attention to the folk music boom. My oldest brother was a big fan of the white bread folkies, PP&M, Kingston Trio and the like. No Guthrie, Seeger or Dylan for him and I couldn't stand any of it. From the time I was aware of music, I liked country songs. Hank Williams, Jim Reeves, Johnny Horton, Frankie Laine, Tennessee Ernie Ford etc. My next oldest brother loved Elvis and rock'n'roll and I heartily agreed with all that. Of course like almost everyone else, The Beatles and the British invasion won me over immediately.
It wasn't until Dylan went electric that I paid any attention to him. I first heard Subterranean Homesick Blues on the radio and loved it. Then came the snare shot that was heard around the world, Like a Rollling Stone and I was hooked. Highway 61 Revisited was the first Dylan album I heard all the way through and I absolutely loved it all. Living in Canada, we were a year behind in most things and it seems he had his accident and retired before I was really aware of him. From 1967 on, I started listening to the older stuff, and by the end of the decade, I'd put away my electric guitar and was playing folk rock with the worst of them. Anyway, I leaned toward the rough and ready Dylanesque style although not so much the political stuff and still, while I respect Woody Guthrie and a few others, I still don't have much use for most of the singers from the folk movement. Probably because I wasn't going to be drafted and sent to Viet Nam and segregation not being a big issue in Canada, while certainly supported the fight for civil rights, the songs didn't attract me as much. It wasn't until Dylan stopped doing that stuff and went electric, the very thing that pi$$ed off the old movement folkies, that I became attracted to his music. I guess that's why I get where he was coming from with Maggie's Farm, It Ain't Me Babe and It's All Over Now Baby Blue and why I take his side over Seeger et all.
My exposure to Bob Dylan is very similar to yours, Ducktrapper. I think "Like a Rolling Stone" was the first number that I knew was by Bob Dylan. I had no idea that he had a previous presence. I may have heard Peter Paul and Mary do Blowing in the Wind prior to that, but I had no idea someone else had written the song. The first Dylan album I actually purchased was Nashville Skyline which he recorded with Johnny Cash.
Highway 61 is an amazing record, and I think his best work.. My favourite Dylan song is Positively 4th Street. Absolute genius. So Duck, and any other Dylan fans, what are your favourite Dylan tracks and records.
Quote from: carruth on December 18, 2014, 01:56:34 PM
Highway 61 is an amazing record, and I think his best work.. My favourite Dylan song is Positively 4th Street. Absolute genius. So Duck, and any other Dylan fans, what are your favourite Dylan tracks and records.
Oh .... so many. How weird is Bob Dylan, however? Great songs like the one you mention, Blind Willie McTell, Series of Dreams and others didn't even make it on to an album until these "Bootleg" albums started coming out. In the No Direction Home film, Joan Baez sings the fanatastic Love is Just a Four Letter Word, a song Dylan claims to have forgotten having written. Must be nice to have so many good songs you can forget about them!
I have to agree on HW 61. Amazing piece of genius and the band, with the great Mike Bloomfield, is tremendous. Younger people don't realize how Dylan changed, not only folk music but rock'n'roll. To wit, NO ONE, at least no one white, played LOUD until Dylan and The
Band Hawks took off on that tour. The Beatles, for instance, could not be heard and couldn't hear each other, in most of their shows, over the screaming little girls. Dylan, after being booed in the States was determined that he would be louder than the boos so they put together one of if not the first modern sound systems. The English, used to "normal" acts would also clap in rhythm to drown out things that they didn't like. Bob and the Hawks pinned their ears back when they tried it on them. I love after he's called Judas, when he turns to the boys and says, "Play it ****in' loud!" and they break into LARS. Classic moment in musical history.
Anyway, from that amazing three album period in '65/'66, I love Mr. Tambourine Man, It's All Over Now, Baby Blue, It's Alright Ma, (I'm Only Bleeding), Ballad of a Thin Man, Just Like Tom Thumb's Blues, Tombstone Blues, Desolation Row, Visions of Johanna, Just Like A Woman, Memphis Blues Again and I Want You. And, of course, the song many consider the best of them all, Like A Rolling Stone. Wait! I nearly named them all ....
didn't I? :beer
Well, we have very similar tastes Duck. I love all those songs as well. Also very fond of the Nashville Skyline album. Bob is certainly a human Chameleon.....and it is nearly all so darn good; and this from a guy with, shall we say, a below average voice.
Quote from: carruth on December 18, 2014, 07:45:46 PM
Well, we have very similar tastes Duck. I love all those songs as well. Also very fond of the Nashville Skyline album. Bob is certainly a human Chameleon.....and it is nearly all so darn good; and this from a guy with, shall we say, a below average voice.
Very similar. But I'm such a sick puppy, I love his voice. :ohmy:
Have you heard Another Self Portrait (Bootleg Series Vol. 10), by the way? My wife is not fond of his voice but really likes that one.
Quote from: carruth on December 18, 2014, 01:56:34 PM
Highway 61 is an amazing record, and I think his best work.. My favourite Dylan song is Positively 4th Street. Absolute genius. So Duck, and any other Dylan fans, what are your favourite Dylan tracks and records.
Being not as familiar with all his songs as some of you, I have to say I agree Positively 4th street is my favorite. It is the ultimate "telling someone off" lyric in my books. It invokes a certain understanding of the situation that I can identify with somehow.
Quote from: carruth on December 18, 2014, 01:56:34 PM
Highway 61 is an amazing record, and I think his best work.. My favourite Dylan song is Positively 4th Street. Absolute genius. So Duck, and any other Dylan fans, what are your favourite Dylan tracks and records.
:+1: I remember playing a 45 over and over of Positively 4th Street when I was around twelve. So many other songs of his are favorites, but this one is my top Dylan song.
With recent incidents on Facebook I have to say I couldn't agree more.
You've got a lot of nerve to say you are my friend! :laughin:
Been a dylan fan since about 1968. But this year my boss asked me to teach a class to my middle schoolers on the history of rock/pop music. The last three weeks I have covered Dylan and I have to say that my students have absolutely loved learning about him and discovering music from several stages of his career. While they haven't always understood his lyrics, especially those from the mid 1960s, they've really gotten into it. Some have gone home and explored more of his music on their own time. So far this year they've become acquainted with guys like Dion, the Everly Bros, Little Ricard and so many more. Next up will be the Beatles and the British Invasion.
Quote from: hodagg on December 24, 2014, 04:25:52 PM
Been a dylan fan since about 1968. But this year my boss asked me to teach a class to my middle schoolers on the history of rock/pop music.
Seems like quite a progressive middle school :bowdown:
Quote from: JOYCEfromNS on December 24, 2014, 05:54:06 PM
Seems like quite a progressive middle school :bowdown:
Its actually a Catholic school and we're a pretty conservative community politically. I'm the middle school history teacher and this class is only once a week so it's not a big part of our schedule. But the principal (and me) are both huge music fans and she was even at Woodstock when she was 18. The response this year from the parents has been really great and as I said, the kids love it. It's also very easy for me to incorporate US history from the 50's and 60's into my music lessons as well. Very easy to get the kids thinking about Civil Rights, the War in Vietnam, etc. when listening to this music.
We were aware of Dylan the writer early in the 60'. PP&M started it, but the the Byrds, the Turtles, Hendrix et al introduced us to his songs in a serious way. But no one really heard of him as a performer until Like a Rolling Stone hit the airwaves. Unfortunately, he never had a hit that big again.
Quote from: Walkerman on December 24, 2014, 09:09:10 PM
We were aware of Dylan the writer early in the 60'. PP&M started it, but the the Byrds, the Turtles, Hendrix et al introduced us to his songs in a serious way. But no one really heard of him as a performer until Like a Rolling Stone hit the airwaves. Unfortunately, he never had a hit that big again.
Maybe no hit bigger, but what he did was bigger than a hit; if that makes sense :?
Dylan is the one that all singer/songwriters are compared to. I even think of Jackson Browne as the Dylan from L.A.
Who hasn't been compared to him that is really good at writing songs at least in America.
Quote from: dependan on December 24, 2014, 09:36:14 PM
Dylan is the one that all singer/songwriters are compared to. I even think of Jackson Browne as the Dylan from L.A.
Who hasn't been compared to him that is really good at writing songs at least in America.
Um, Barry Manilow? After all, he writes the songs that make the whole world sing. :wink:
Quote from: JOYCEfromNS on December 24, 2014, 09:17:26 PM
Maybe no hit bigger, but what he did was bigger than a hit; if that makes sense :?
Well, yes and no.
Dylan told Lennon "you have nothing to say." Yet pull any stranger aside and ask them to name a Beatles song. You'll get a myriad of answers.
Lennon told Dylan "No one hears what you say." Pull any stranger aside and ask them to name a Dylan song...most likely you'll get Like a Rolling Stone, or a blank stare.
Dylan was a big deal in the 60's.....but that was about it. For sure, he has a huge catalog....but what good is it if no one hears it?
Quote from: Walkerman on December 25, 2014, 10:34:06 AM
Dylan was a big deal in the 60's.....but that was about it. For sure, he has a huge catalog....but what good is it if no one hears it?
Steve I get your point. Is Dylan by himself mainstream popular - IMO No not really. But is he the biggest influence on all who have been mainstream popular since - IMO he has no equal. For me its a completely different level - one that I can get immersed in quite complex for my simple mind.
Quote from: JOYCEfromNS on December 25, 2014, 10:53:50 AM
Steve I get your point. Is Dylan by himself mainstream popular - IMO No not really. But is he the biggest influence on all who have been mainstream popular since - IMO he has no equal. For me its a completely different level - one that I can get immersed in quite complex for my simple mind.
Shakespeare is considered as being the greatest playwright of all time. Yet I am only familiar with a couple of his works (the ones teachers forced me to read).
Dylan lost me when he followed the crowd with Hurricane.
Quote from: Walkerman on December 25, 2014, 11:02:42 AM
Shakespeare is considered as being the greatest playwright of all time. Yet I am only familiar with a couple of his works (the ones teachers forced me to read).
Dylan lost me when he followed the crowd with Hurricane.
I again get your point and it rings of truth though to me its one dimensional
Take Dylan out of the equation and music as we know it would be a much different place. I can't think of one other person that would have such an effect, including John Lennon ( but he and his buddies might be a distant second :-)
Quote from: JOYCEfromNS on December 25, 2014, 10:53:50 AM
Steve I get your point. Is Dylan by himself mainstream popular - IMO No not really. But is he the biggest influence on all who have been mainstream popular since - IMO he has no equal. For me its a completely different level - one that I can get immersed in quite complex for my simple mind.
Agreed. A large part of his mystique and a major reason he still matters is exactly because, impossible as it is for him, he has actively eschewed such a position. You know ... voice of a generation, spokeman for the movement, guru, rock star, celebrity, and all. One should watch the film in question, perhaps.
Quote from: JOYCEfromNS on December 25, 2014, 11:16:19 AM
I again get your point and it rings of truth though to me its one dimensional
Take Dylan out of the equation and music as we know it would be a much different place. I can't think of one other person that would have such an effect, including John Lennon ( but he and his buddies might be a distant second :-)
And if the Beatles never existed, not only would music be a much different place, but the WORLD would be a much different place. Imagine the music of the 60's going foreword if there had been no British invasion. Imagine our world if there had been no anti-war or peace and love movement.
Seriously, Beatles tribute bands (Rain etc) play all over the world to sell out crowds....ummmmm....when was the last time you saw a Dylan tribute band. As a matter of fact, I see more really bad reviews of Dylan concerts than I do good ones.
IOW, take Dylan out of the equation, and the music of the early sixties might have been different. Take the Beatles out of the equation, and we'd still be listening to the singing nun and Frankie Avalon.
I just feel Dylan had/has a greater influence on the artist who deliver that music. I too luv the Beatles and some of their tribute bands as most everyone does.
To argue who's bigger Dylan or The Beatles was not my point I believe each were huge in particular ways. Not suggesting that Dylans music is liked more on Facebook than The Beatles
Quote from: Walkerman on December 25, 2014, 12:45:31 PM
And if the Beatles never existed, not only would music be a much different place, but the WORLD would be a much different place. Imagine the music of the 60's going foreword if there had been no British invasion. Imagine our world if there had been no anti-war or peace and love movement.
Seriously, Beatles tribute bands (Rain etc) play all over the world to sell out crowds....ummmmm....when was the last time you saw a Dylan tribute band. As a matter of fact, I see more really bad reviews of Dylan concerts than I do good ones.
IOW, take Dylan out of the equation, and the music of the early sixties might have been different. Take the Beatles out of the equation, and we'd still be listening to the singing nun and Frankie Avalon.
Dylan tribute band? You're kidding me right? The Beatles may be the only group/person more imitated than Bob Dylan and then again maybe not. Most of modern folk/rock/country music is one large Dylan tribute. Like Andrew, however, I won't get into a who's better between the Beatles and Dylan anymore than argue between chocolate and vanilla. I love both of them.
The thing I like the most about Bob Dylan is that he may be the only artist, at least since his very earliest days, ever to succeed on a massive level by
never giving people what they want. Never meeting their expectations. By almost always knowing better than his audience, their requirements. By truly not giving a damn what anyone thinks of him. Obsessively, some might say perversely, he refuses to pander to or even acknowledge the audience's wishes. Would anyone disagree that he has combined freedom and success to a degree that no one has ever achieved in the musical arena?
Very interesting thread.
The Beatles are "imitatable", whereas I would say Dylan is not imitatable in the same sense. He is too unique and, also, not a "band". So I don't think that is a valid criteria for comparing the two in terms of who had the most influence. Like many, they both had a huge influence on me personally, but in different ways. I think this is true for their influences on so called "rock" music as well. Perhaps a more apt comparison would be who's songs have been covered the most by other legitimate artists on their recordings?
At a personal level, I was exposed to the Beatles first. At that point, I just had to be in a band, write hit songs, make it the top of the charts, get chased by screaming girls et al. I was only 11 keep in mind. My brother and a couple of buddies started a so-called band, "The Shooting Stars", incidentally, because we were going to "shoot to the top". :blush: We tried our best to be the next Beatles. We even wrote a few songs. I would say I was influenced by the Beatles directly. They are what made me want to be a professional musician when I grew up.
In the case of Dylan, it was more of an indirect influence; through the Byrds, mostly. I consider the Byrds to be the closest band to the Beatles that the USA produced at the time. I had no idea some of their first big hits had been written by Bob Dylan, but I liked those songs better than any Beatle song I had heard up to that time. To me, they were songs of the type that I would rather write and fit how I wanted to play guitar. So, yes, I still wanted to be in a band, but now a band more like the Byrds. The cross-picking guitar style of Roger McGuinn has been the biggest influence on my playing style to this day.
When I heard "Like A Rolling Stone", it was an epiphany for me. I was a little older by then, and actually could play a few chords on the guitar. I still hadn't made the connection between Dylan and the Byrds' songs, but from then on, that was the type of song I was going to write. (at least until some other influences came along). I thought, "here is something I could do if I was going to be a performer and song-writer". It inspired me to consider that I might be more suited to simply performing solo, unplugged if you will, singing along with my acoustic guitar as opposed to my dream of being a front man in a band context. So that is the direction I headed.
It is revealing, in my case, that among the first few songs I ever actually learned to play and sing were "Mr. Tambourine Man", and "It Ain't Me Babe". In those early years, I didn't have much interest in actually learning any Beatle songs, though I still liked listening to them, of course. In fact, I learned several Rolling Stones songs before I ever learned to play a Beatles song. The first of these was "Play With Fire", which is not so unlike a Dylan song, when you think about it.
So where am I going with all this? I'm just trying to paint a picture of how the two influenced my musical journey at a personal level. Which one had more influence on music today in general, I don't know if that can ever be answered. I think the Beatles had much more of an influence on rock (popular?) music as a genre, and the direction that it went, and maybe even the popular culture than Bob Dylan did.
Dylan's influence, to me, is at a deeper level, but just as important. He showed how a song could be more than just another "fluffy" re-hash of teenage puppy love. His songs had a message that you could identify with at a more personal level and made you think. In that respect, I think he influenced songwriting in general as opposed to popular music in general. He also brought the so-called "protest" song, or political commentary song, to a new level of popularity where it was on the same level as any other popular song of the times, in terms of exposure to the masses on the radio. If not for that, I don't know if the Beatles would have turned their direction towards "Tax Man", for example, of if Lennon would have been inspired to write some of the political commentary songs he wrote. Which came first, "Blowing in the Wind", or "Eve of Destruction"?
Just riffing on the topic. Merry Christmas
Okay, I'll admit I'm not as bright as y'all but the first song/chord book I bought was a Dylan book. Tambourine Man was the first song I practiced.
To this day, other than singing When I'm 64 to my wife, I haven't tried to learn any Beetles songs. But I continue to learn Dylan songs.
TO EACH HIS OWN! :donut2
Quote from: dependan on December 25, 2014, 11:38:03 PM
Okay, I'll admit I'm not as bright as y'all but the first song/chord book I bought was a Dylan book. Tambourine Man was the first song I practiced.
To this day, other than singing When I'm 64 to my wife, I haven't tried to learn any Beetles songs. But I continue to learn Dylan songs.
TO EACH HIS OWN! :donut2
You got that right, Dan. Merry Christmas :cheers
Quote from: Walkerman on December 25, 2014, 10:34:06 AM
Dylan was a big deal in the 60's.....but that was about it. For sure, he has a huge catalog....but what good is it if no one hears it?
Even if we take it that "no one hears it" meaning most of public.....what difference does it make? Huge. How many people actively listen to Hendrix?
Or take it back further. How many listen to the blues guys of the 20's and 30's? Or the string band music from that time. Or the early Memphis Rockabilly guys like the Burnette Brothers and more? Even if you said "nobody" those nobodies would be serious and influential musicians and song writers. And you can cool believe, like any pro's, they study the best and emulate to some degree...then spit it back out.
To me Dylan had/has 2 sides to his genious. 1 was the use of imagery that doesn't spell things right out but lets the listener interpret. This allowed the listener to personalize the song to their life as if he either wrote it for them specifically or make you think had the ability to just sum up the world perfectly for you. Clever and maybe a little trickery. That's one thing...then, 2, to show he can just nail straight ahead
lyrics right thru your head or heart, he wrote stuff like lay lady lay, tonight I'll be staying here with you, I'll be your baby tonight etc. The former takes imagination. The latter to me more difficult. That is to be able to take make solid as concrete the conveyance of something as fluid as emotions with little wiggle room. You don't have to think at all. In this case he really does nail your feelings by himself.
My sister, 10 years older than me, always had Dylan albums around. From the early stuff and into electric era. I listened to them A LOT from the time I was 7 or so until 17 or 18. Not much since but still put what I consider a masterpiece, Blood on the Tracks, on once a year or so. But anyway, I know he is probably the biggest influence on my songwriting.
Another thing to me is that his singing is way under rated. You can either like his vocal chords or not, but his phrasing is a real talent. Even his simple sounding harmonica sometimes has more going on that you realize. These things become apparent perhaps only when you work on his songs to get down just like he's doing..
This thread has been fun reading with lots of great comments. Dylan has made an indelible mark in my opinion. I've always loved his work but was one of those legions of folks that was critical of his vocal quality. Then it hit me several years ago that I actually liked his voice because it
was his voice. The music and the vocal vehicle, for me, became as one. Very unique artist to be sure.
Quote from: Walkerman on December 25, 2014, 12:45:31 PM
And if the Beatles never existed, not only would music be a much different place, but the WORLD would be a much different place. Imagine the music of the 60's going foreword if there had been no British invasion. Imagine our world if there had been no anti-war or peace and love movement.
Take the Beatles out of the equation, and we'd still be listening to the singing nun and Frankie Avalon.
It's kind of funny for me to stand up for Dylan because I have these prejudices against artists that people absolutely worship and put at the alter. Same with Grateful Dead but likewise I would say that Garcia was a great guitar player, at least later on in career, because he had his own instantly recoginizable, original voice on guitar. So for a serious discussion, I have to tell it like I see it with lord Dylan. Music perhaps more than other art forms is SO influenced by those that came before or those that influenced others. Sometimes the original creative forces are barely even known but their influence on music and maybe even the world, is great. Dylan was a big influence on the Beatles by their own accounts, leading them to their "world will never be the same" originality that started pouring out with what, Rubber Soul? Here's what Lennon said. It was the second point. The first was that Dylan turned them on to pot but whoopty doo. They would have done that anyway and I think drugs affects on creativity are over rated anyway.
"The second major influence Bob Dylan had on the Beatles was that he freed them from the conventions of pop music. This resulted in an increased use of acoustic rather than electric instruments in Beatles recordings, as well as a dramatic rise in their compositional craftsmanship. "I had a sort of professional songwriter's attitude to writing pop songs," said John Lennon. "We would turn out a certain style of song for a single... I'd have a separate songwriting John Lennon who wrote songs for the meat market, and I didn't' consider them (the lyrics or anything) to have any depth at all ... Then I started being me about the songs, not writing them objectively, but subjectively. ... I'd started thinking about my own emotions. ... Instead of projecting myself into a situation, I would try to express what I felt about myself. ... It was Dylan who helped me realise that" (Anthology page 158). The difference is clearly discernible in their recorded output from that time. Lennon's "I'm a Loser" off Beatles for Sale, "You've Got to Hide Your Love Away" off Help!, and "In My Life" off Rubber Soul are the obvious examples. Though Dylan's influence was most noticeable in John Lennon, Paul McCartney's songs of the same albums show similar progress. Songs like "I'll Follow the Sun" off Beatles for Sale, and especially "Yesterday" off Help!.
A lot of interesting comments. However, anyone claiming that Dylan is not much imitated must not have listened to enough music in the last 50 years. From outright mimicry to honest admiration and inspiration, the history of modern folk/rock/country owes much to the young man from Minnesota. Had anyone heard songs like Dylan was writing? Not his folk songs like It's a Hard Rain's A Gonna Fall, his folk rock like Mr. Tambourine Man or his straight rock'n'roll as in Like A Rolling Stone or Tombstone Blues. Who was doing anything like this in 1960 to 1964 except for those who heard the songs one night and decided to follow in the jingle jangle morning? Who was playing rock'n'roll like the trio of albums from '65 and '66? Who was playing country music like this from 1966 to 1968? Who, other than straight country singers, black bluesmen and Buddy Holly were doing songs they themselves had written, before Dylan made it not only possible but de rigeur? And of those besides Hank Williams and Woody Guthrie who was going much beyond rhyming moon with June? And how many voices that were not traditionally pretty were set free?
So ... Eric Anderson, Barry McGuire, Leonard Cohen, Neil Diamond, Donovan, Cat Stevens, The Byrds, The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, Grateful Dead, David Bowie, Don McLean, Sonny Bono, Arlo Guthrie, The Band, Jackson Browne, Eric Clapton, Steve Forbert, Jimi Hendrix, Elvis Costello, Chris Smither, Dave Carter, Murray McLaughlin, Tom Petty, Steve Earle, John Prine, John Hiatt, Richard Thompson, Dire Straits ... heck I could go on and on ...
I don't worship Dylan, I admire him greatly. I certainly don't think he is a perfect human being. He is often difficult, moody and awkward. Some say he can be quite nasty and hostile in person. Others say he is just plain weird. He has been known to purposely blow off an audience who paid a lot of money to see him. He is often unresponsive and needlessly obscure during interviews. He shamelessly stole people's record albums and their ideas and made everything that interested him, his own. Joan Baez claims he often smelled bad. It is claimed that he wooed and seduced those he could use and and abandoned them when they were no longer needed. I merely think he is the greatest voice and songwriter of his time, whether he accepts the mantle or not. Bob Dylan set music free with his thin, wild mercury sound. George Harrison claimed that every one except Dylan would be forgotten in 500 years. I guess time will tell. Just a song and dance man indeed. :cheers
Yep, One thing I would maybe wonder about or just doubt is the country stuff. I think he may have taken lead from others in going that direction in with Nashville Skyline. But just like his treatment of blues, he nailed some great country songs..
Quote from: flatlander on December 26, 2014, 06:21:32 PM
Yep, One thing I would maybe wonder about or just doubt is the country stuff. I think he may have taken lead from others in going that direction in with Nashville Skyline. But just like his treatment of blues, he nailed some great country songs..
Sure, he took the lead from Cash and Haggard and the Bakersfield boys but they were pretty much pure country guys and, unless they had a cross over hit, we young rock fans weren't listening to them much, if at all. Skyline was 1969 but of course two years earlier, John Wesley Harding had a couple of country-ish songs and he was fooling around with country music in the basement in '66 as the Complete Basement Tapes show. Word got around even if no one was hearing it. The Byrds' Sweetheart of the Rodeo was a year after JWH. Gram Parsons left The Byrds and took it farther with the Burritos and then his short careeer. Garcia got a pedal steel and The Grateful Dead went country in 1970 but not much of what they called "country rock" before Dylan.
there's something happening here
and you don't know what it is.
Do you,
Mr. Jones?
Quote from: robwms on December 27, 2014, 10:37:17 PM
there's something happening here
and you don't know what it is.
Do you,
Mr. Jones?
I want to be Bob Dylan
Mr. Jones wishes he was someone just a little more funky
When everybody loves you son that's just about as funky as you can be...
MR. JONES
Mr Jones and me, we're gonna be big stars :tongue:
Quote from: ducktrapper on December 27, 2014, 07:56:47 AM
Sure, he took the lead from Cash and Haggard and the Bakersfield boys but they were pretty much pure country guys and, unless they had a cross over hit, we young rock fans weren't listening to them much, if at all. Skyline was 1969 but of course two years earlier, John Wesley Harding had a couple of country-ish songs and he was fooling around with country music in the basement in '66 as the Complete Basement Tapes show. Word got around even if no one was hearing it. The Byrds' Sweetheart of the Rodeo was a year after JWH. Gram Parsons left The Byrds and took it farther with the Burritos and then his short careeer. Garcia got a pedal steel and The Grateful went country in 1970 but not much of what they called "country rock" before Dylan.
This is a great book for the roots of country rock. I read it years ago... http://books.google.com/books/about/Desperados.html?id=pydnobIDzJEC
I was always aware of Bob Dylan and some of his songs but was never an active listener or follower. Because of this thread, I watched "I'm not There" last night on Netflix just to get an idea of what his life was about and I'm glad I did.
I certainly appreciate his brilliance as a song writer which not only drove a generation of artists but changed music across all genres. I'm still not a fan of his own music, but I love how he does things his own way and still managed to be successful.
Funny Dylan story from a couple years back: http://www.alternet.org/culture/bob-dylan-arrested-rookie-cop-who-never-heard-him
I play the Beatles for other folks to listen to.
I play Dylan for me.
:bgrin:
For me, at young age, and very addicted to music "Rainy Day women # 12 & 35" got me hooked.
I think it might have been the first 45 I bought as well.
I've always had a thing for trombones :whistling: