K&K mini live + (mic or Tube pre)?

[dberch]

I use K&K mini pickups in all my guitars. I'm looking to add a bit more wood/air to the sound at shows. Would you recommend...

A mic for live reinforecment, or
A tube pre like the PreSonus Channel pre (I can't afford the K&K Progression Tube Pre) ?

Anyone using a tube pre with their K&K's live? Which one? Pros? cons?
Anyone successfully using a mic for live sound re-inforcement in restaurant/bar type venues? Which ones?

Thanks!
David

[vibroluxe]

I'm afraid I haven't tried a K&K pick-up yet—although at this point I'm hearing only good things. I've been through the Baggs, Fishman, etc. route and only got more frustrated with the crap sounds. At one point, however, I did have a crown mic inside my (Augustino) guitar, with an ancient Barcus-Berry HotDot, run through a Fishman blender pre-amp. It all worked remarkably well and sounded reasonably "natural"—with the mic mix bumped up for FOH and the P/U as primary monitoring source.

I've also had some luck with a dbx tube pre-amp (purchased on ebay for substantially less than many of the acoustic guitar-specific pres) when running through a bigger PA system.

I assume you wholeheartedly endorse K&Ks... I look forward to getting one on my D-60 very soon.

[GA-ME]

David, I use the K&K Trinity System and use the mic to add a bit of air/sparkle to the tone. I have the Trinity pre amp set to minimize bass and mids on the mic channel and to maximize the treble response of the mic. It is decent, but will feedback with too much mic volume when running through the Bose. I've found the Trinity mic feeds back much faster than the vocal mics we are using, even with the preamp mic channel set to a very low gain. I usually set the Trinity preamp at about 11 and 3 for pick-up and mic respectively. I run the signal into the Tone Engine and use the flat acoustic guitar pre-set and adjust accordingly with the zEQ for the particular room.

I think I've given up on getting an actual "natural acoustic" tone when amplified. I just try to get as good of a sound as possible when amplified and the Trinity System, with an old late 70's DOD analog delay, into the Bose gives me a huge guitar sound, even if it isn't exactly perfectly "natural". I have tinkered quite a bit with the Tone Engine delays and have yet to get a setting I like as much as the cheap old DOD pedal. I'm still hoping to get that box out of the signal chain as it eats batteries like I eat potato chips. I'd definitely be interested in what ever solution you come up with. I tried inserting a couple different ART Tube MP preamps into the signal chain, but they were just to noisy when they got hot, so they had to go.

[dberch]

Hi Ga-ME!  Thanks for the reply.  Since I posted this I bought a pair of Behringer C-2 small diaphragm mics.  One works GREAT on my partners mandolin with no feedback issues. I tried the other on my guitar but the tone wasn't fantastic like I expected, and I had feedback - but only if I forgot to mute the channel and left my stool.

I'm looking into a Headway EDB-1 to blend the mic and pickup and provide a much more robust EQ with 5 bands plus a notch and phase.  Reviews of the EDB-1 have been very good.

I located a dealer only 50 miles away, so I hope to check it out in the next month or so.  Not in a real big hurry as I'm pretty happy with my sound as it is. We're all tweakers aren't we? :)

I have discovered that my guitar sounds much better to my ears plugged thru the Pure XLR preamp into the Model I base unit (channel 1) with 80hz high pass than any tonemach setting I've tried on the T1.

I'll keep you posted.
David

[ronmac]

I am presently using Fishman RareEarth Humbucking P/U and K&K PWM combo in a couple of guitars and find it works very well for me. The most important aspect of any pickup system is having good quality preamps and eq for each channel. Two sources allow you to have snapshots of the sound image from two different perspectives, and will present options to play with and a more complex sound. Playing this combo through a Pendulum SPS-1 (since sold) was very, very nice.

I gave up on internal mics a couple of years ago. They did add a second dimension (as any second source does), with a bit of air, but I could never get the tone just right, even using very good quality processing gear.

External mics are another story. I often use those as a third source with the Fishman/K&K combo, or as a subtle tool for volume swell or control. Small diameter condenser mics are ideal (under ideal circumstances), but how often are most of us in that scenario? Good quality dynamic mics can add that something extra and are much easier to control. The Sennheiser MD441 is superb (and expensive!), and it is hard to knock the SM57 as a good trusty mic that is never going to be the best sounding solution, but always one that works.

[unclrob]

Right now I'm using a GHS A131,I velcro it to the side of my guitar and get a great sound.Depending on the room I've used it either strat thru the board when playing with the another electric band I've been putting it thru my Ultra Sound AG30 which is lined to the board.I also use sidefull monitors instead of the wedge on the floor in front of me.I have also use my MXL large diaphram for one of the duo's with the small pencil mic from behind us to help with the vocals.
As for tube pre amps when I worked in a studio in Miami we had one but only used it when someone asked as the specs were not as good as the boards spec's.I must also add that a tube pre amp is nothing more then a 12AX7 tube and really doesn't warm anything up to my ears and also I think its nothing more then hype.



Ducking now as I'm sure I'll be attacked for my opinions.