Has anyone had their Larrivee bracing scalloped ?

[flatlander]

My, my dear Zohn,

That doesn't sound too respectful.  But you're not alone.  Apparently I've created quite a number of non-fans with my attitude of knowing more than you do.
Roundly as ever,
Scott

I've always enjoyed craftsman who didn't have the need to tell you that they know more than you. Confident enough that the peons of ignorance are no more annoying than knocking an ant off your shoe, with a smile.

[tadol]

On a side note - I stopped at a local luthiers shop I know yesterday, and was surprised to see he was carrying Seagull guitars. I was even more surprised to quickly play a couple of them. As he describes it, they are inexpensive and decently built, but he found that he could reach in and thin / reshape the braces, and thin parts of the top by tapping and listening, add  bone nut and saddle, and fine tune the set-up, and they become extremely decent guitars - great volume and tone, and very decent sound. His prices on them are only about $100 over what big stores sell them for, and if someone were interested in a Seagull, they are probably the best ones available. He noted that if someone brought their guitar in for the same treatment, his charge is $250 -

I think that many "factory" built guitars can be improved with a little hand-builder attention, but the scope of what is possible is extremely limited with the box closed, and the cost to get it done can possibly warrant upgrading to a better guitar - Plus, unless you buy the guitar from the authorized shop doing the mods, you would probably lose all warranty options. But as a way of getting a luthier fine-tuned guitar at a very reasonable price, and a way to help keep small shops/builders in business, its a very interesting idea -

Tad

[Mr_LV19E]

What happens if he isn't around when someone wants to invoke the lifetime warranty?
 

[unclrob]

Let us remember that most warranties only cover there material and craftmanship.Anyone messing with any of this stuff voids the warranty.This means that the owner now pays for all work there after.

[BluesMan1]

   This thread is getting pretty interesting & feisty! Don't know where the undertones of hostility, except the obvious one, are coming from?
   My luthier knows so much, but only answers my questions. Has 40+ years of knowledge to share. Will if you ask him to? I think the word humble comes to mind? Knowledge doesn't build a big ego. Just thinking one knows everything does!
   FL, like your post. Don't know why the attack from another, but you hit the nail on the head!
   Scott, there are many here that know much. You're now entering into "The Twilight Zone"!  Here's a bow to express our gratitude!!
     Jeff

[flatlander]

What happens if he isn't around when someone wants to invoke the lifetime warranty?
 

The guy who built one of my mandolins said it came with a lifetime warrenty. His lifetime!

[ducktrapper]

The guy who built one of my mandolins said it came with a lifetime warrenty. His lifetime!

This may be one of the unforeseen advantages of buying a guitar from a large, multi-generational, family run business.

[jeremy3220]

I'm wonder what the results would be...
and what it might cost to have a luthier do it ?

'Scalloped' bracing requires peaks of a certain height and I doubt that there is enough brace height on a larrivee to leave a sufficient peak in the appropriate locations due to the tapered design. Also with the lower tone bars being perpendicular to the centerline the peaks won't lie in the same location.

Btw, scalloping is not simply to make the brace lighter or more flexible. Tapering the braces gives a better strength to weight ratio and is easier to do. The guitar top along with everything else has nodes or places where vibrations are cancelled out. If you pick up a metal bar that's easy to make resonant you'll notice that holding the bar in different places makes it resonant better or worse. The spots where you hold the bar and it resonates well are nodes, vibrations are naturally cancelled there so holding the bar in that location causes the least effect on the bar's ability to resonate. The peaks of a 'scalloped' braces are usually placed on these nodes so the braces can offer structural support while not inhibiting vibrations.
Also most of the volume comes from the main monopole mode and the most effective way to increase that mode is to increase the tops ability to move in the center (about where the scallops are).

[carruth]

Has Mr Larrivee expressed an opinion as regards the shape of the braces in his guitars?

[ducktrapper]

Has Mr Larrivee expressed an opinion as regards the shape of the braces in his guitars?

As a matter of fact, by all accounts, he has this absolutely crazy idea that, after all this time, he knows exactly what he's doing when he builds a "Larrivée". 

[carruth]

Exactly my thoughts Ducktrapper.

[flatlander]

It would be interesting though to know his thoughts about braces. Originally Larrivees were all about balance and he introduced a new way of bracing guitars to that end. So you know he thought about every aspect of braces. He decided to go thick and straight. Why? I'll say one thing. Between the bracing and the dove tail, my guitar has gone 30 years and has hardly budged. The neck isn't anywhere near  needing reset. In fact with a little sanding on the fretboard and keeping frets up to snuff, it still has as good of action as it did when I got it, which was very good.  And PLENTY of saddle. I'd be interested in his thoughts. I wonder if he's shaped braces on any of his guitars?

[mas music]

 Jean Larrivee believes that scalloped bracing compromises the structural integrity of a guitar. Larrivee bracing is a hybrid of classic x bracing and symmetrical classical guitar fan bracing. Larrivee's claim to fame is balance not volume. I wouldn't change a thing.

[Zohn]

My, my dear Zohn,
That doesn't sound too respectful.  But you're not alone.  Apparently I've created quite a number of non-fans with my attitude of knowing more than you do.

 
I find knowing less is sometimes sooooooooooo liberating...

I've always enjoyed craftsman who didn't have the need to tell you that they know more than you. Confident enough that the peons of ignorance are no more annoying than knocking an ant off your shoe, with a smile.

hmmmm,  I rest my case  

[Zohn]

I between the bracing and the dove tail, my guitar has gone 30 years and has hardly budged. The neck isn't anywhere near  needing reset. In fact with a little sanding on the fretboard and keeping frets up to snuff, it still has as good of action as it did when I got it, which was very good.  And PLENTY of saddle.

Wow, that is amazing. Some other high profiled branded guitars might have seen a couple of resets in that time...

[flatlander]

And keep in mind that the truss rod in not adjustable either!

[BenF]

Firstly - apologies for spelling errors, I'm on my iPod here, I will edit it later.

Whilst GA-ME may sound slightly confrontational in his post here, the man speaks his mind, and if everyone did that the world might just work a bit better.

I ordered my forum III, I clearly ordered it blind. The neck is fatter than anything I had played before, and was awkward to begin with. I stuck with it, and adjusted, and now I love tge profile. I didn't buy a Guild M20 for ages because it gad a narrow nut. I jumped at one recently, and with some serious committed play time, I can switch between the two guitars comfortable, even though the fretboards and string spacing are very different.

The bottom line, Larry - and I mean no animosity here at all - is that steel string guitars are different to nylon string guitars, and require a different technique. The only way to gett good at guitar is to practice. There is no short-cut. You seem committed to learning the guitar, and also post a lot about lessons and theory and techniques of the stars.  I find this forum a great place to learn, with members like Will Fly and flatlander giving their time and knowledge incredibly generously to help people they really don't know from Adam.  However, all tge knowledge of theory in the world won't replace hours and hours and hours and hours of relentless practice.

I stress again that i mean no offence here. 2 years ago I was convinced that the 'answer' was in books and hand crafted instruments. I guess I saw the light. Members like GA-ME let me see that the learning process is about dogged dedication and commitment to practice until your fingers hurt.

Shoulder pain is an issue, and yeah, maybe the SD was too big. The thumb pain will deminish as you build up strength through hours of practice. It is a slow process. There is no holy Grail.  Steel strings are harder to fret than nylon. My fingers hurt from playing the Guild. They will stop hurting in time.  It sounds great, and opens new doors of sonic potential for my playing. Now I need to put in the hard graft to harness that potential.

I consider myself very lucky to have two very nice guitars. I am acutely aware that many of the people I aspire to play like probably learned on what I would term a 'beater'

sorry for tge long post. I feel strongly about this. Again, I mean this as constructive, not destructive. You are a good guy Larry, I have no gripe with you, so please don't think otherwise. This forum, and individuals have made my perceptions do a U-turn. Instead of considering abrupt comments from GA-ME and others as an attack, remember that they made the effort to read your comments, think about them, and care enough to comment. His underlying thought is almost always valuable advice, even if it isn't what you want to hear.

I'll crawl away to my cave now. Rob.........any space in the cave of shame?........


   

[unclrob]

Ben the Cave is very large and well stocked I might add.I agree with you 100% and would have said so but I'm not much of a people person.Elegently stated.





PS: Watch for flying rocks that may be heading your way,the door is open and though some will disagree the light is always on.

[flatlander]

Those thoughts go hand in hand with learning the indivual guitar as well. I was nodding my head with OBE when talking about getting his new Martin OM. In first opening post he was talking about learning how to coax sounds out of his new guitar. That's among the first things I do. Ask not what your guitar can do for you, but what you can do for guitar. 
Shifting to electric but same idea. I got a kick out of sound engineer talking about about recording B.B. King. The knobs were just straight up on amp and he ask B.B. where he liked them. B.B. was just like, I dont care, put em where you like. He said he kept adjusting them and it didn't seem to make any differnce. Wherever he put them it was the same tone coming out as B.B naturally adjusted! He just put them back at 12:00 O'Clock as he realized his expertise wasn't needed!

[ducktrapper]

Ben - Well stated! I recall some formula for success referring to various percentages of inspiration and perspiration.

There was a video where Mr. Larrivée clearly talks about his decision to use the braces that he uses. It's not accidental, capricious or poorly thought out. It's actually part of what makes a Larrivée a Larrivée.