Thermo Cured Adirondack and Stika Top Question

[William2]

I've been watching a couple of comparison videos of non-cured and cured Adirondack top guitars. For me, the cured tops sound a little more open on the videos. In the comments section, it was mentioned that Adirondack tops take 5 or more years to open up and that the curing process speeds this up. They also said it makes the top less susceptible to cracking. They went on to say this isn't necessary with Sitka. Why wouldn't it be necessary for Sitka if this is true?  And what does this opening up of the Adirondack top mean? Is it a warmer sound?

"The upcharge for the TC on this model is only $150 and I think it's worth it. We won't know fully how torrefied guitars age but it does make the wood more stable. Also, wood for guitars can last upwards of 150 years. Just look at old martins and old violins. Once they settle and are properly humidified they rarely crack. Also, sitka doesn't really need to be aged as it is usually pretty warm from the beginning and opens up fairly fast. Torrefaction is best suited for Adirondack tops in my opinion because they can take 5-10 years to open up. That's just my experience. Hope it helps."

[B0WIE]

YouTube comments are often worthless. I'm the acoustic guitar community you see the same goofy things parroted over and over, especially on AGF. Adi having a 7 year break in is one of them. Spruce, in general, improves with time. "Sitka doesn't need it" is a dumb statement, IMO.

Torrification hardens the resins, something that would otherwise take decades. But, it doesn't change the fact that there is still tension between the glued parts, especially in factory guitars. That takes time to loosen up. Plus, my experience with baked guitars was not as dramatic as with vintage instruments.  It tells me that tensions in the top may be more important to tone than resins hardening.

I personally don't have a lot of interest in baked tops. It's not been around long enough for me to trust it. And, I don't like the way it looks. Trying a couple didn't move my away from normal tops.

[StringPicker6]

I also feel like it's just a marketing trick on a product (acoustic guitar) that doesn't have a lot of wiggle room for new bells and whistles.  I also think it robs the owner of all that growing and living with a lovely and spiritual product.  I've played new yamahas with their baked tops, and they sound great, but I felt like I was cheating and I sure would miss a guitar's "childhood and growth" if it was a keeper.  It seems to be aimed at serial traders vs someone who is looking for a lifetime guitar.  Oh boy, I've had too much coffee...          

[Silence Dogood]

"Baked," "Thermo-cured," etc. kind of makes me chuckle.  It all seems very fad-ish to me.  Same goes for those "roasted maple" necks that are all the rage on electric guitars right now.  At first they looked pretty cool to me, but now they seem like one of those things that will look dated in no time (think: hot pink, mullets, etc.). 

Still, all this is pretty fun and harmless stuff in the grand scheme.  Just more goofy guitar player stuff. 
 

[William2]

"Torrification hardens the resins, something that would otherwise take decades. But, it doesn't change the fact that there is still tension between the glued parts, especially in factory guitars. That takes time to loosen up. Plus, my experience with baked guitars was not as dramatic as with vintage instruments.  It tells me that tensions in the top may be more important to tone than resins hardening."

This is something I never considered, "the tension between the glued parts." And I've never read about the time these torrification processes run and what they use as an end point.

[B0WIE]

"Torrification hardens the resins, something that would otherwise take decades. But, it doesn't change the fact that there is still tension between the glued parts, especially in factory guitars. That takes time to loosen up. Plus, my experience with baked guitars was not as dramatic as with vintage instruments.  It tells me that tensions in the top may be more important to tone than resins hardening."

This is something I never considered, "the tension between the glued parts." And 've never read about the time these torrification processes run and what they use as an end point.

Makers have had to figure out what works for them, since it's different than in the lumber industry, and I know of one that even admitted to some of their earlier baked tops failing. They used to lose a lot of tops in the process too but I believe that grows less as they get better at it. I've not done any further research on it in the last 5 years so things may have changed a little.

 I know a lot of people do the "...these new fangled..." rants whenever there's new tech discussed. But, this isn't something created by the guitar industry. The guitar industry just adopted it because it does harden the resins in the wood, and one of the goals in building is stiffness and resonance in the top wood. That's why spruce works so well. That's why builders like Jean are picky about their woods. Larrivee upcharges for "moon spruce" which is harvested at a time when the resins have shifted in the tree. If you can believe Larrivee does that to make better instruments then the torrefication practice should make sense as it's also about the resins. I'm personally just not moved by torrefication. Who knows, maybe I didn't try the right ones.

William, if you want to learn more about this techy stuff, watch some interviews with Richard Hoover of Santa Cruz Guitar Company. He's very open about a lot of the science and technique behind lutherie. He doesn't offer baked tops but that's probably because his tops are all from wood that was harvested a long time ago. I guess they can afford that luxury since they only build 500 a year and they get $8k and up for them.