How Much Does Soundboard Wood Choice Affect Tone Quality

[Silence Dogood]

That mustache guy is all over the AGF.  He's got some very nice guitars. 

[kevbroce]

I know American instruments cost more. My point was if you take a Martin model at a certain price and have them put an Adirondack top on it, the price really goes up. Why? They buy from the same place and don't have to ship the wood overseas.

Rarity, likely. Just not as much available so if you want it, you pay for it.  And I imagine most higher end Martin customers would expect a certain visual quality level of their instruments top and wouldn't use the lower visual rade stuff.  My understanding is standard Martin's are grade by the wood's by look only, so paying more isn't about a tonal quality but a visual quality.  As far as Adi, when Eastman uses it on their higher end models, streaking and grain uniformity aren't so important to budget buyers.  You can see it easily just looking phots of the guitars.  And who's to say the tonal quality of their Adirondack is even notable?  I think Tom Bedell of Bedell guitars said a wood stiffness can vary as much as 30% though out a tree trunk.  At this point with Eastman, I'd bet Bourgeois grabs the best of it.

There's so much more to it than just the "type" of wood.  Interestingly, Santa Cruz doesn't charge more for it on their builds.  I think the added cost is just build into their business model.  These days it seems they're prioritizing customizing the build to your tonal wants and playing style, Sitka Adi, German, Italian spruces, Redwood and Cedar are no cost options.

Moon Spruce is an upgrade thought, I've got to play one of these tops.

Speaking of woods, I've yet to see one in person, but Larrivee's rosewood is unbelievable looking.  Even on the standard models, the grain is striking.  So many straight and uniform pieces, it's really pretty in a way that's completely opposite of some many "boutique" rosewood pieces where swirls and unique patterns are prized. I'm just really impressed with what Larrivee manages to use.  I know it's one of their things, it's just really cool.

[kevbroce]

Should I fault a Chinese born, American educated musician/businessman for growing a business building affordable quality instrument in his home country? Should I assume the worst in them because I dislike their government?  I don't think so.
Man! My first post here are rough... I just wanted to learn about some nice guitars lol.  I'm about an hour from Larrivee and really admire what I know about the family business. 


Speaking as one of the resident "liberal" types, I rarely venture into the political weeds here, just guitars. But it's interesting the vehemence that china guitars get here, but I'm open to them because I've picked up quite a few I'm impressed with.

Possibly what is damaging to the china reputation is that they're simply hired guns for USA named brands. It's Guild that designs the specs for their sub-$1K priced guitars and I've picked up several that were worth buying. Fender on the other hand will contract them to make a wooden box they'll sell for less than $200 bucks that is useful only as firewood.

I argue we live in a golden age for acoustics. There is no secret to how to make a nice sounding guitar acceptable to 90% of the buying public.

Hope you hang in with us greybeards here, I need someone younger to explain why Taylor Swift is so popular. . . 

I completely agree on the cheap builds.  Do we really need more cheap guitars in the world... I'm not saying budget guitars should go away.  Yamaha has managed to make some impressive guitars for cheap, for a long time. But think of how many guitars are build worldwide every year. For years and years and years.  Where do they all go?  Which is what I have appreciation for Eastman, yes, they are cheaper than some and are Chinese made, but they're generally nice instruments.  It's worth considering the environmental policies here, and in their and Dana Bourgeois defense, Eastman recently stopped spraying Nitro finishes.  But there are thousands of guitars lining the walls of guitar center that never should have been built.  We've all picked up one of these guitars that played so poorly you hang it right back up.  Nobody needs more of those...

Lol, Tswift.  I recently saw here in tour, my wife's a big fan. As far as my love for modern pop music goes, I'm a big fan too.  At her level, it's not just about the music.  She put on a great show.  She interacted with the band, they weren't just stuck on side stage.  She had great props, an interesting stage, great choreography, it was a story, and she genuinely came off much more authentic that she easily could have.  She played for 3 hours, and you could hear it in her voice, there were point she wasn't perfect.  Like a normal human singing and dancing for hours would sound like without a vocal track playing off a computer...  Her career, and here albums, are a journey that my wife and Taylors millions of fans have grown up with, it's part of them.  Sofi stadium packet to the brim of fans (very friendly ones I'll add, they do this bracelet trading thing with each other at shows that least to a friendly ness with strangers that just isn't normal these days...)  She doesn't partake in the garbage side of celebrity pop culture, and she's built an absolute entertainment empire.  I used to work as an audio engineer at LA's top rehearsal studio, I've been on Internation tours myself.  I've worked with some of the best, and some the worst, of the entertainment world.  Taylors one of the good ones.

[B0WIE]

Does China have issues, yes, and they're appalling. 

Yes, they are appalling. The human rights issues they have. I won't derail this into a political discussion but some of us choose not to buy Chinese when possible, for reasons other than just quality.

[Silence Dogood]

I'm pretty sure I've said this before here, but since China came up...  I grew up in the 80s and can't shake the stigma of "Made in China" when it comes to an emotional purchase like a guitar, much like my parents and grandparents couldn't shake the stigma of Made in Japan, Taiwan, et al.  And even though I know that Eastman (et al) makes a great guitar, when I see the "Made in China" bit on the label, the instrument becomes a toy-like thing in my mind and I can't fully take it serious.  I would never be able to look at any China-made instrument, no matter how well-made, boutique-like, old-world craftsman-made it was, like I'd look at a Collings, Santa Cruz, Larrivee, etc. 

I realize this isn't rational, and I realize there are shops just like Collings, Santa Cruz, Larrivee, et al, in China making guitars that someday might come to be viewed like we view a pre-war Martin: but somehow it's all spoiled for and lost on me.  And yet, the MacBook I'm typing on is made in China and I see it as a fine piece of equipment.  Same goes for my iPhone and my flatscreen. Top-notch stuff in my narrow mind!  But when it comes to guitars, I can't get there.  At this point I've given up trying to get over it and don't care that much anymore.

As far as China's environmental issues, I couldn't possibly care less.  But it is funny to watch those in the climate cult pretend to care while still sending their labor over there to be done cheaper (hello, Apple, Nike, and pretty much everyone else!).  What an absolute joke.  The human rights issues, on the other hand, are concerning to me: but all the while I know there's nothing I can do about any of that.  Things like that have always gone on and will always go on, even if we stop buying Chinese trinkets at Walmart.

Regarding Taylor Swift, I'm not a fan but I'm not anti either (the visual appeal is obvious, though).  When I've heard her songs while out and about, or in a movie, etc, I'm always impressed with how catchy they are. And if she is actually writing those songs, it's doubly impressive. And if younger (and older) people are coming to her shows and having a great time, well, they could be doing a lot worse. 

[jpmist]

Lol, Tswift.  I recently saw here in tour, my wife's a big fan. As far as my love for modern pop music goes, I'm a big fan too.  At her level, it's not just about the music.  She put on a great show.  She interacted with the band, they weren't just stuck on side stage.  She had great props, an interesting stage, great choreography, it was a story, and she genuinely came off much more authentic that she easily could have.  She played for 3 hours, and you could hear it in her voice, there were point she wasn't perfect.  Like a normal human singing and dancing for hours would sound like without a vocal track playing off a computer...  Her career, and here albums, are a journey that my wife and Taylors millions of fans have grown up with, it's part of them.  Sofi stadium packet to the brim of fans (very friendly ones I'll add, they do this bracelet trading thing with each other at shows that least to a friendly ness with strangers that just isn't normal these days...)  She doesn't partake in the garbage side of celebrity pop culture, and she's built an absolute entertainment empire.  I used to work as an audio engineer at LA's top rehearsal studio, I've been on Internation tours myself.  I've worked with some of the best, and some the worst, of the entertainment world.  Taylors one of the good ones.

Thanks for all that. A few decades ago I might have written a similar post describing "The Beatles."  I have tried only a few times to seriously sit down and listen to some of her tracks with mixed reactions. Obviously, I'm past the age where songs about having a fight with your high school best friend resonates with me and I think it's her song subject choices that is the biggest obstacle to me. That she's mastered the art of creating a flawless, contemporary and catchy Spotify ready track is hard to argue.

There's also a bit of evil envy I have to fight down as well - to be young, beautiful, white, "blond," talented, personable, fearless, media savy with an obvious talent for song composition with the finest engineers, producers and writing partners anyone can ask for is a lot on the plus column and I can't find anything to fault her for save for her squinty eyes thanks to her gloriously high chiseled cheekbones <grin>
Ultimately I can respect her quite a bit and wish her well in her career but I'll still look to my own favorites to listen to.

[Queequeg]

Honestly, I wouldn't recognize Taylor Swift's voice or any of her songs if I heard them. That's my fault; not hers.
I don't fit her core demographic target market.
But she's certainly captured the lion's share of those who do. This world tour has racked up $5 billion so far according to something I just read.

And I was glad to see her standing up to Ticketmaster/Live Nation a while back.
Mid-summer I was up north, standing in line with my granddaughter at an ice cream parlor. I turned around and the woman behind me, probably early 40s  had a Taylor Swift "The Eras Tour" t-shirt. Normally I'm not one to just strike up a conversation with strangers but as a big fan of live music myself, I asked her how she liked the concert. She seemed delighted that I had asked.
She went with her teenaged daughter. You know, she didn't just say "awesome!". She described the show in some detail, similar to what kevbroce posted above- lights, sounds, costumes, her own excitement. The best concert she's ever attended.
"If you don't mind me asking, what did you pay for the tickets?", I wanted to know.
"$200 each", she told me, and said she will do it all over again if she has the chance to see her again next year. I know that a lot of people paid much, much more for those tickets.
I appreciated her enthusiasm. Hey, that's how we all feel after we've been to a great show.
Anyway, I don't see Taylor Swift showing up on the scandal sheets in the super market tabloids, passed out on some Hollywood sidewalk or getting pulled over for DUI, with guns and drugs in the car.

[teh]

Thanks to Queequeg for posting the videos. I have watched Silly Moustache's videos on the Acoustic Guitar Forum but missed this one. He is an interesting guy with an impressive collection of guitars and a unique perspective. I notice he does one on one lessons and I haven't inquired but may reach out to him later this fall. I have already taken 4 or 5 online lessons with Tom Feldman.

Regarding the topic of guitars made in China, I have mixed feelings. On one hand, all, or most of my electronics, come from China (I-phone, I-pad, Laptop). On the other hand, I have guitars made with East Indian Rosewood, South American Mahogany, Canadian Sitka Spruce, Austrian Moonwood Spruce, two Canadian built Larrivees plus two low end guitars built in Mexico. Where do I draw the line?

About five years ago, I bought a slightly used Alvarez Artist Dreadnought for $200 that was made in China. This guitar has a solid spruce top and laminated mahogany back and sides. I refer to this as my "poor man's" D18. A few months ago, I strung this guitar with medium gauge strings and tuned it down one step to D. It actually sounds good.

My 14 year old granddaughter went to a Taylor Swift concert with her mom and cousin and they had a great time. Like Queequeg, I can't name any of Taylor Swift's songs either but that's my fault too. When I asked my granddaughter if she could name a song from Gordon Lightfoot, John Prine or Steve Goodman she couldn't. I guess the true test will occur after Taylor Swift has been performing for 50 years. By that time, my granddaughter will be a senior citizen and I will be in the great beyond.