The Classical Guitar.

[Silence Dogood]

I've been playing acoustic guitar for exactly 30 years, always on a steel string. I've never paid much attn to nylon strings in all that time, but of late I've become quite taken in by it all. I don't even recall with drew me in.

I've recently watched several classical guitar maker documentaries, lots of great guitar demos on YT, and find myself learning about the various makers and players, etc. It seems to be an even richer world than the steel string. 

I know I'll eventually buy a classical guitar but I'm not ready yet.  For now it's just fun learning about it all. 

Who else here loves the classical guitar?

[teh]

Me too. Steel string player since 1968.

Willie Nelson sure knows how to get a signature sound out of a nylon string guitar. I am thinking about a Godin myself but for the moment, I am playing my nylon string Kala Baritone Ukulele. I bought mine for $100 (or $109) and it was much cheaper than a tenor guitar. Sounds good for what I paid for it. I added a hard shell case for $39.

[ducktrapper]

Don't know much about classical guitar music. I've always liked The Guitar Trio.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFlDf7Ck-N4&t=1919s

Or with Larry Coryell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIPLwoiL71o

[William2]

Don't know much about classical guitar music. I've always liked The Guitar Trio.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFlDf7Ck-N4&t=1919s

Or with Larry Coryell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIPLwoiL71o

Paco's right hand puts those other two guys to shame. And he seems to have more to say also. Paco's guitar has more of the traditional sound compared to whatever the other two guys are using. I don't think he is plugged in, just miked. Too bad they spend showing Paco's face instead of that right hand technique.

[William2]

I guess when I think of a classical guitar, I think of a handmade instrument. There is no factory that can build a classical guitar as good as a handmade instrument. And these are way beyond my price range at my point in life. Coupled with this is the level of playing standards many of these young players possess. It's scary!!! Here is an example of a young player I like and her handmade classical guitar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bboT2qzd7Y

[Silence Dogood]

I guess when I think of a classical guitar, I think of a handmade instrument. There is no factory that can build a classical guitar as good as a handmade instrument. And these are way beyond my price range at my point in life. Coupled with this is the level of playing standards many of these young players possess. It's scary!!! Here is an example of a young player I like and her handmade classical guitar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bboT2qzd7Y

I understand what you mean about an old-style, benchmade guitar vs a Cordoba, et al, stamped out of a guitar factory assembly line.  No real comparison.  But the same is true with small shop steel string makers vs a Yamaha, et al.  One is way nicer than the other, but I'd not let that stop me from getting started playing music. 

I'm in my 40s and it's too late for me to become a really good Classical player: but it's not too late to learn a few pieces and have some fun. 

As far as the young hotshot players go, an old saying comes to mind: Comparison is the thief of joy.

[William2]

I understand what you mean about an old-style, benchmade guitar vs a Cordoba, et al, stamped out of a guitar factory assembly line.  No real comparison.  But the same is true with small shop steel string makers vs a Yamaha, et al.  One is way nicer than the other, but I'd not let that stop me from getting started playing music. 

I'm in my 40s and it's too late for me to become a really good Classical player: but it's not too late to learn a few pieces and have some fun. 

As far as the young hotshot players go, an old saying comes to mind: Comparison is the thief of joy.

I'm in my 70s and don't try to compare myself with the young players. I just note how far the technical level of playing has progressed from the 1970s. Levels that were rare are now commonplace. I agree you have to play what you do best. As for the instrument itself, I really appreciate a great sounding nylon string instrument. There is something in these factory instruments that just sound muddy to me particularly in the middle register and on the third string. That is why I enjoy listening to an accomplished player on a good instrument. I find the classical repertoire sounds great on a good steel string instrument. The steel string instrument has a sustain you probably won't get in a factory instrument. That is why I play my classical pieces on a steel string acoustic.

[ducktrapper]

Paco's right hand puts those other two guys to shame. And he seems to have more to say also. Paco's guitar has more of the traditional sound compared to whatever the other two guys are using. I don't think he is plugged in, just miked. Too bad they spend showing Paco's face instead of that right hand technique.

I believe the entire point of the trio was to showcase three different, distinct styles. I don't think anyone is putting anyone else to shame here. Three pretty decent players. 

[Silence Dogood]

I'm in my 70s and don't try to compare myself with the young players. I just note how far the technical level of playing has progressed from the 1970s. Levels that were rare are now commonplace. I agree you have to play what you do best. As for the instrument itself, I really appreciate a great sounding nylon string instrument. There is something in these factory instruments that just sound muddy to me particularly in the middle register and on the third string. That is why I enjoy listening to an accomplished player on a good instrument. I find the classical repertoire sounds great on a good steel string instrument. The steel string instrument has a sustain you probably won't get in a factory instrument. That is why I play my classical pieces on a steel string acoustic.

I agree that the lower-end classicals really do lack in sound compared to the higher-end guitars. I've watched several reviews on YT with great players on lower-end guitars vs higher and the sounds and tones can be vastly different.  Many of the lower-end guitars do sound good, but none of them sound great.  But an entry level Cordoba (et al) is probably a lot better than what most people in most situations historically played for a lifetime.  I try and keep things like that in perspective.  We as guitar players are very spoiled in these times compared to times past. 

[William2]

I'm not in the market for a classical guitar, but if I was, I would probably check these out as opposed to a Cordoba. These are used by many prominent players.

https://www.altamiraguitars.com/

[Sandstorm]

I was playing electric guitar for 15 plus years before I got the idea to learn classical.  Was always fascinated to know what exactly they were doing to be able to make 1 guitar sound like a full band.

Started taking lessons and following the Royal Conservatory program...starting with no, not grade 1, but there's actually a level before than called "Preparatory."  That was humbling for a hot shot lead guitar enthusiast to do lol.

I found at first it was hard to stay engaged because I wanted to advance fast but the pieces were short and to get the proper tone with the right technique was hard.  I went hardcore on material and practice and was learning grade 2 material a year or so in and then I slowed down.  Picked it up again couple years later and did the first three exams all at once.  I was on and off for next couple years with my lessons and took a couple of serious attempts at getting further into grade 5 before I finally committed bigtime and finished the exam.  Played for 2 years working on grade 6 before challenging the exam...then took about a year break before selling all my electric gear and wanting to take it more seriously.  This was when I recently acquired my Larrivee to have a steel string to do fingerstyle and strumming and picking with for a little variety vs strictly nylon string.  Too much of a good thing can burn you out, especially if you aspire to be a decent player.

I started with a Godin Etude, solid cedar top for 220 bucks Canadian used.  Its a 700 guitar these days.  It kept tune and sounded like a nylon and was good enough to get going.  Then I got a Ramirez 130th Anniversary...not made in the famous Ramirez shop but contracted by some Spanish factory.  Solid rosewood back and sides.  I put a lot of hours on that guitar and thought it was really good instrument.  Out here in Southwestern, Ontario its not easy to find a shop close by that has a big selection or any real selection of luthier built classical guitars but it wasn't until I got one built for me by a luthier recommended by my teacher I could see what the difference was...

There wasn't a big wow moment when I played it for the first couple times compared to my Ramirez..but wasn't until I put several hours in over a few days and then went back to play the Ramirez where I realized what a luthier made classical guitar sounds like in terms of dynamics.  Of course theres tone, materials, looks but for me the biggest difference was dynamics.  It's like having a volume knob that goes from 1 to 10 vs 1 to 3 is the best way I could describe it.  The ramirez and cordoba or Alhambra guitars are very good instruments for a serious student and they sound good, you can learn on them and they won't hold you back.


I will also say, having a structured program like RCM gives you technique and pieces to learn in a graduated program format so you don't get disengaged trying to learn something beyond reach.  Find a good teacher, be committed and slowly, over time you will see improvements.  It takes a long time, and I'm certainly not great but I do enjoy it a lot.  I feel like only now, after 12 years of on and off periods I can finally get some real sounds out of a classical guitar.  It may be difficult to tell if one is really good if you are developing technique early on...it is really up to the player to get the tone out of it, you're not plugging into a guitar with carefully considered pickups, pedals, tubes, settings...

You don't want to be the guy that goes and spends $10k on a classical guitar and trying to learn some grade 9 level Bach lute suite...

[Silence Dogood]

I was playing electric guitar for 15 plus years before I got the idea to learn classical.  Was always fascinated to know what exactly they were doing to be able to make 1 guitar sound like a full band.

Started taking lessons and following the Royal Conservatory program...starting with no, not grade 1, but there's actually a level before than called "Preparatory."  That was humbling for a hot shot lead guitar enthusiast to do lol.

I found at first it was hard to stay engaged because I wanted to advance fast but the pieces were short and to get the proper tone with the right technique was hard.  I went hardcore on material and practice and was learning grade 2 material a year or so in and then I slowed down.  Picked it up again couple years later and did the first three exams all at once.  I was on and off for next couple years with my lessons and took a couple of serious attempts at getting further into grade 5 before I finally committed bigtime and finished the exam.  Played for 2 years working on grade 6 before challenging the exam...then took about a year break before selling all my electric gear and wanting to take it more seriously.  This was when I recently acquired my Larrivee to have a steel string to do fingerstyle and strumming and picking with for a little variety vs strictly nylon string.  Too much of a good thing can burn you out, especially if you aspire to be a decent player.

I started with a Godin Etude, solid cedar top for 220 bucks Canadian used.  Its a 700 guitar these days.  It kept tune and sounded like a nylon and was good enough to get going.  Then I got a Ramirez 130th Anniversary...not made in the famous Ramirez shop but contracted by some Spanish factory.  Solid rosewood back and sides.  I put a lot of hours on that guitar and thought it was really good instrument.  Out here in Southwestern, Ontario its not easy to find a shop close by that has a big selection or any real selection of luthier built classical guitars but it wasn't until I got one built for me by a luthier recommended by my teacher I could see what the difference was...

There wasn't a big wow moment when I played it for the first couple times compared to my Ramirez..but wasn't until I put several hours in over a few days and then went back to play the Ramirez where I realized what a luthier made classical guitar sounds like in terms of dynamics.  Of course theres tone, materials, looks but for me the biggest difference was dynamics.  It's like having a volume knob that goes from 1 to 10 vs 1 to 3 is the best way I could describe it.  The ramirez and cordoba or Alhambra guitars are very good instruments for a serious student and they sound good, you can learn on them and they won't hold you back.


I will also say, having a structured program like RCM gives you technique and pieces to learn in a graduated program format so you don't get disengaged trying to learn something beyond reach.  Find a good teacher, be committed and slowly, over time you will see improvements.  It takes a long time, and I'm certainly not great but I do enjoy it a lot.  I feel like only now, after 12 years of on and off periods I can finally get some real sounds out of a classical guitar.  It may be difficult to tell if one is really good if you are developing technique early on...it is really up to the player to get the tone out of it, you're not plugging into a guitar with carefully considered pickups, pedals, tubes, settings...

You don't want to be the guy that goes and spends $10k on a classical guitar and trying to learn some grade 9 level Bach lute suite...

This is a great post - thanks.  Very informative.  I don't have the time to take lessons (I work way too much and have too many other responsibilities), but I would like to learn some fingerstyle techniques and try to work out some simple pieces.  I've been trying on my steel string and it's pretty tough.  I'm great with a pick but not so great with my fingers, and I get the feeling the narrower nut on the steel string is really holding me back.  I kind of wish I could rent a decent classical for a weekend and see if I like it.  I  mostly don't want to spend some money and end up regretting it.  Then begins the process of having to sell the guitar to recoup funds, etc. 

I was in a guitar shop not long ago and really liked an old Takamine they had on the wall.  Unfortunately the previous owner colored on the label inside the soundhole (with a green pen no less) and it really bothered me. Not sure I'd be able to get over it.  All the cheaper, entry-level classicals they had just didn't sound or feel good.   

[Queequeg]

With apologies for a semi-derailment on the subject of classical guitars for a moment.
I don't play classical guitar, but some things just sound so much better on nylon. And so tangentially, speaking of nylon-stringed instruments (as has been posted here before) I had the Yamaha NTX900FM and I loved this guitar.
But... so did my son, so I gave it to him because, well, you know, great father that I am. 
They are of course, no longer available, but then I saw something new from Godin, introduced at NAMM 2023.
The Multiac Mundial.
Way off the mark of a classical guitar, to be sure. Looks like a tele body. Nylon of course. But there is a solid cedar topped chamber though you would never know by it looking at it, over maple back & sides.
It's rather quiet which is good for me playing late at night, not to disturb others. But believe me, it still has life and tone and personality even unplugged.
OK, I miss the Yam but this is a very nice guitar. Neck feels great, overall very comfortable guitar.
Good electronics for playing out, too.

We now return you purists to your classical discussion with my thanks for your indulgence...

[ducktrapper]

With apologies for a semi-derailment on the subject of classical guitars for a moment.
I don't play classical guitar, but some things just sound so much better on nylon. And so tangentially, speaking of nylon-stringed instruments (as has been posted here before) I had the Yamaha NTX900FM and I loved this guitar.
But... so did my son, so I gave it to him because, well, you know, great father that I am. 
They are of course, no longer available, but then I saw something new from Godin, introduced at NAMM 2023.
The Multiac Mundial.
Way off the mark of a classical guitar, to be sure. Looks like a tele body. Nylon of course. But there is a solid cedar topped chamber though you would never know by it looking at it, over maple back & sides.
It's rather quiet which is good for me playing late at night, not to disturb others. But believe me, it still has life and tone and personality even unplugged.
OK, I miss the Yam but this is a very nice guitar. Neck feels great, overall very comfortable guitar.
Good electronics for playing out, too.

We now return you purists to your classical discussion with my thanks for your indulgence...

Nice dad! None of my kids play so I'll keep mine although I almost gave it to my grand daughter. I really like the Godin Multiacs. if I could afford one, I'd be interested. For now the Yamaha will have to do. I agree it's not a classical guitar but then I'm not a classical player. If you just want to enjoy the feel and sound of nylon strings, it can't be beat. Plus it sounds great plugged in and has a built in tuner! What's not to like?