A question about the guitar arrangements of John Renbourn

[William2]

I'm not familiar with the music of John Renbourn. I came across a traditional tune he arranged for guitar. I am interested in building up a repertoire of these traditional tunes. Unfortunately, the Renbourn arrangement used one of those many alternate tunings. I've never been that interested in these alternate tunings partly out of laziness or just not seeing the need for them. The tune was The Mist Covered Mountains of Home, and it tunes the strings ECAEAE from the first to the sixth. It is a great tune and arrangement, but I'm just not going to retune my instrument for a short little tune. Does anyone know if the majority of Renbourn's music is in these alternate tunings? I was thinking of ordering a book of his arrangements, but the sellers never list the contents or supply any information about the arrangements.

[mike in lytle]

I found one page that gives various tunings for many of John's songs.
https://gtdb.org/artists/john-renbourn/13?q=&hide_albums=&page=1

and another, with tabs and tuning shown
https://www.songsterr.com/a/wsa/john-renbourn-tabs-a4815

Of course, many you tube videos easily found.
I went thru a phase of Pentangle and Steeleye Span after high school, but it's easy to get tired of it. I just listened, never learned to play the stuff.
Anyhow, I use various tunings, simple ones. I have one guitar dedicated to one specific tuning cause I noodle around on it so much. Others, like dropped D, or DADF#BE, are so easy to get to that I retune all the time.
I would go ahead and learn the tune, I am sure you would do a good job of it. It's way beyond my ability, but it's always a good idea to "go for it", and perhaps you could compose something to make the tuning worthwhile.
Mike

[William2]

I found one page that gives various tunings for many of John's songs.
https://gtdb.org/artists/john-renbourn/13?q=&hide_albums=&page=1

and another, with tabs and tuning shown
https://www.songsterr.com/a/wsa/john-renbourn-tabs-a4815

Of course, many you tube videos easily found.
I went thru a phase of Pentangle and Steeleye Span after high school, but it's easy to get tired of it. I just listened, never learned to play the stuff.
Anyhow, I use various tunings, simple ones. I have one guitar dedicated to one specific tuning cause I noodle around on it so much. Others, like dropped D, or DADF#BE, are so easy to get to that I retune all the time.
I would go ahead and learn the tune, I am sure you would do a good job of it. It's way beyond my ability, but it's always a good idea to "go for it", and perhaps you could compose something to make the tuning worthwhile.
Mike

Thanks for all this information. When I played classical guitar, I had several pieces that tuned the sixth string to D and several that also lowered the fifth to G. But I have a real aversion to changing the top strings and also increasing the tension with all the string changes in this arrangement. I used to play renaissance lute pieces on the guitar by lowering the third string to F#. This gives you the interval relationship of the renaissance lute. But after playing lute, I have never been able appreciate this music on the guitar again. To my surprise, I read that the great guitarist John Williams feels the same way about lute music on guitar. I have purchased and been looking at arrangements by Duck Baker. He has taken some of this Celtic music and arranged it in standard tuning where others have played it in DADGAD. I also enjoy his ability to play jazz on guitar fingerstyle. I heard a recording on You Tube of Duck Baker playing medieval tunes for the holiday season. It was so atmospheric I wanted this CD but it was out of print. I finally found it in Europe for $33. Guess who I bought it from, Duck Baker LOL. Such a nice person. We had a nice email exchange. The sheet music is available online. Mostly standard tuning with lowered 6th and sometimes 5th. Really big preface where he details the history of the carols. It is a great history lesson. The recording is done on a 12 string guitar which adds to the atmosphere of these pieces.

[Queequeg]

William, I know you have several guitars so, just as Mike in Lyle indicated, you can re-tune one of them.
You are right to be concerned about tuning up which increases the tension, but tuning down, opens up a whole new spectrum of voicings, in addition to increasing The register. I really enjoy tuning the sixth string down to C and the fifth string to G.
You mentioned DADGAD too.
I enjoy that occasionally. Anyone who plays a lot of Celtic music is going to be familiar with DADGAD. The open strings add the requisite sustain and drone.

[William2]

William, I know you have several guitars so, just as Mike in Lyle indicated, you can re-tune one of them.
You are right to be concerned about tuning up which increases the tension, but tuning down, opens up a whole new spectrum of voicings, in addition to increasing The register. I really enjoy tuning the sixth string down to C and the fifth string to G.
You mentioned DADGAD too.
I enjoy that occasionally. Anyone who plays a lot of Celtic music is going to be familiar with DADGAD. The open strings add the requisite sustain and drone.

Good point, and it would be an answer to my laziness about retuning LOL. And I did notice that several of the Renbourn arrangements Mike linked to use the third string lowered to F# which is the renaissance lute tuning. But why? One last thought on alternative tunings, I always discount a video demonstration of an instrument where the instrument is put in DADGAD or something like that. That instrument has to have a problem if it can't impress me in standard tuning.

[B0WIE]

Guess who I bought it from, Duck Baker LOL. Such a nice person. We had a nice email exchange.

How cool! He's amazing, I was just re-watching one of his DVDs (which surely was was a tape originally) last month. His "Rakes of Waterloo" is my favorite Celtic-style song to play. The guy deserves way more recognition.

Regarding alt tunings, it's an annoyance for me. I bought the big, expensive Joni Mitchell song book only for it to become a coffee table decoration because everything is in a different tuning. I think I may dedicate one guitar to DADGAD, but I am too sensitive to imperfections in tuning to be able to constantly change the tunings my guitars are in. After you tune, the strings settle, top settles, etc and I notice that shift so tuning up usually takes me a couple minutes until I'm happy. I just can't go back and forth.

[jazzereh]

Not sure if this  will be useful to you since I have not looked at the material for John Renbourn but this site does have some of his tunes...

https://www.classclef.com/?s=renbourn

...as well as for many other musicians

[William2]

Not sure if this  will be useful to you since I have not looked at the material for John Renbourn but this site does have some of his tunes...

https://www.classclef.com/?s=renbourn

...as well as for many other musicians

Thank you. This looks very interesting. I am going to have to listen to a lot more of Mr. Renbourn's music. There is much here that I haven't listened to on You Tube.

[mike in lytle]

Thank you. This looks very interesting. Iam going to have to listen to a lot more of Mr. Renbourn's music. There is much here that I haven't listened to on You Tube.

And I am happy you brought Mr. Renbourn up to the group. It has been quite a worthwhile lesson of the day.
Thank you.
Mike

[StringPicker6]

Renbourn did some video lessons on Stefan Grossman's store, www.guitarvideos.com 

DVD's and also digital downloads now.

[William2]

And I am happy you brought Mr. Renbourn up to the group. It has been quite a worthwhile lesson of the day.
Thank you.
Mike

It is amazing with all the different forms and styles of music how something can get past you. I had heard of John Renbourn when I was young but never gave a listen as I was studying classical guitar. And all my friends at the Conservatory played classical music on their respective instruments. But having time to listen in my retirement, I came across him yesterday. He was quite a player. And it is great that he was also a good arranger and composer for our instrument. I think the quality of his arrangements and compositions will keep him as a name not forgotten.

[gtrplayer]

All of Renbourn's music is accessible at Stefan Grossman videos site for sale.  There is also another site (free) ;

https://www.angelfire.com/music2/blackmack/european.html

with scores of tabs from guitarists along with John's arrangements.  John Renbourn was one of my favorites.   His arrangements were challenging yet so much fun.  He passed a few years ago and will be sorely missed by many.

[StringPicker6]

I've mentioned it on this forum before, but renbourne did an amazing album with Wizz Jones called Joint Control. Wonderful music!!

[ducktrapper]

I'm not familiar with the music of John Renbourn. I came across a traditional tune he arranged for guitar. I am interested in building up a repertoire of these traditional tunes. Unfortunately, the Renbourn arrangement used one of those many alternate tunings. I've never been that interested in these alternate tunings partly out of laziness or just not seeing the need for them. The tune was The Mist Covered Mountains of Home, and it tunes the strings ECAEAE from the first to the sixth. It is a great tune and arrangement, but I'm just not going to retune my instrument for a short little tune. Does anyone know if the majority of Renbourn's music is in these alternate tunings? I was thinking of ordering a book of his arrangements, but the sellers never list the contents or supply any information about the arrangements.

That's a good argument for second or third or ... another guitar.

You might also want to check out his band which also features Bert Jansch. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentangle_(band)

[William2]

That's a good argument for second or third or ... another guitar.

You might also want to check out his band which also features Bert Jansch. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentangle_(band)

Thanks for the link to the group. That was an interesting read. I've been watching videos of Renbourn actually performing. His playing is so natural, relaxed and fluent. And it looks like there are a lot of guitarists who play his music based on You Tube videos.